Posted by Thomas Graham on Friday Jun 09, 00:41
According to the South Manchester Reporter, John Leech has written to McDonalds asking them to give his world cup tickets to a real fan. He will still be going out to Germany to play the charity matches, and as a result will miss the Didsbury Festival and his surgery on Friday.
John said, "The organisers [of Didsbury Festival] have never invited me to the festival anyway. I went last year but they didn’t invite me to open it."
Lord Bradley, the former Withington MP who chairs Didsbury Community Association, the festival’s organisers, said: "I’m sure that John Leech has very good reasons for travelling to Germany rather than support our local festival.
"My only concern as chair of the organisation is to to ensure the continued success of the Didsbury Festival for the benefit of our local community and our local charities."
+ tags coming soon
( 116 Comments )
Thomas
Friday Jun 09, 00:49
Obviously it isn't worth going to a festival if you aren't invited to open it. I'm glad John Leech has realised that it isn't acceptable to abuse his position as an MP to get free tickets for the world cup, but I find it odd that he decided to act as a spokesperson for the Parliamentary team and then claim "he didn't ask for tickets".
I shall be attending the Didsbury festival, not only to support the many local groups and charities represented there, but because it is a thoroughly enjoyable afternoon - even though I'm not invited to open the festival.
Ben
Friday Jun 09, 12:01
The truth of the matter is, that Mr leech did not chose off his own back to write to Macdonalds and request that the tickets be given away....His own party made him! He was ready to go and watch the game and Thomas what you need to ask yourself.."If the media had not found out, do you think Leech would have used the tickets?"
My quess he would be YES....He is not as straight as he makes out to be!
peter h
Friday Jun 09, 15:42
don't be so silly. you think that group going to germany is all lib dem mps?
and thomas, you wonder john leech won't talk to you when you write like that?
I hear the sound of barrels being scraped
2 Jobs
Friday Jun 09, 16:30
According to the article the pensions minister and Stalybridge and Hyde MP James Purnell and health minister and Leigh MP Andy Burnham both declined their tickets straight away because, shock horror, they had work to do.
He has enough trouble doing BOTH HIS JOBS properly (thats why he only replied to somewhere between 65% and 85% of his constituents letters within a fortnight) without going to Germany, even if it is a charity match.
Why shouldn't Thomas have fair representation - there is nothing wrong with what he said. The truth is John is bitter that he hasn't been asked to open the festival and he is giving a middle finger to the organising committee and Keith Bradley who work so hard for this excellent local event - to say his parliamentary trip had been arranged before the football is just a plain lie (but then that is nothing new coming from John)
Alan
Friday Jun 09, 20:58
Thomas I posted on this subject the oher day and frightfully yes I did agree with what Peter says and even worse actually stuck up for John boy, any ideas why it isn't showing??
Thomas
Saturday Jun 10, 10:50
Alan, I think you posted on the other thread:
http://www.johnleechwatch.com/home/blog/52#c1699
"Alan Wednesday Jun 07, 19:02
I hate to admit it but I don't see the problem. Lots of MP's get perks for being an MP and if someone offered me World Cup tickets I'd have them in a second, even if it was just to sell them on ebay!"
BEN
Saturday Jun 10, 14:49
John has tantrums often! He must have shares in dummies!!!
peter h
Saturday Jun 10, 14:51
you mean he has shares in the labour party?
BEN
Saturday Jun 10, 14:52
And conservative
peter h
Sunday Jun 11, 00:08
perhaps he could turn out for england in the world cup. might sharpen their attack up a bit
2 Jobs
Sunday Jun 11, 01:04
Don't you think John already has too much on his plate - what with his two jobs and charity trips to Germany (which while possibly honourable isn't what we pay him to do) he hardly has the time to take a month off playing football.
Alan
Sunday Jun 11, 12:02
Thomas, you are right I'll get my brain engaged one day.
peter h
Monday Jun 12, 13:17
perhaps, mr 2 jobs, john should do the same as joh prescott and get paid £130 000 for doing half a job badly in between his bouts of staff morale boosting?
Would somebody please explain to the braindeads around here that he is on a multiparty trip? Or do these pillocks think the house of commons fottbal team has one player?
Dave
Monday Jun 12, 16:30
May be they only need one player in the Commons team! Especially if they only play against the House of Lords team! lol
Dave
Monday Jun 12, 16:31
may be it's just Lord Bradley v's Mr Leech? lmao
Thomas
Tuesday Jun 13, 00:32
Now Peter, I thought we were here for a reasoned debate. John Leech is off playing a charity match in Germany. That is not what we pay him to do. Yes it is good that he is raising money for things, but at the same time he shouldn't miss his surgeries.
As "2 Jobs" pointed out, several members of the football team that are part of the government actually have *work* (gasp) to do so declined the offer off their own backs rather than being forced to do it to save face as a result of bad press. Of course the team is cross party, and I also think that it is wrong for them to miss their surgeries and abuse their position as MPs by receiving tickets from McDonalds.
Are you really defending him getting the tickets Peter? I think another point to make is that for some reason, he chose to represent the Parliamentary Team by making a statement to the press denying that they had asked for tickets. McDonalds said that the parliamentary football team had approached them for tickets and they had supplied 23 category one tickets.
Dave
Tuesday Jun 13, 10:40
I wonder (with a little bit of imagination) if Lord/Sir/Duke Bradley was still the MP for us, and he had been given tickets, and he was fit enough and played for the Commons team, and the team was off to play a CHARITY match in Germany, how many Labour supporters would be up in arms moaning about representing us blah blah blah, and how many would be back slapping him and telling him how admirable he was for doing his bit for charity?
Dave
Tuesday Jun 13, 11:14
I guess John Prescott would be a good England footballer, he gets paid silly amounts of money; he's not very good at his job; and he likes playing with his balls (or should that read; his secretary likes playing with his balls?)
Alan
Tuesday Jun 13, 19:20
LOL Dave, that was good!
peter h
Wednesday Jun 14, 17:08
thomas, one small point. Exactly how long are the MPs taking on their German trip? I assume it's only a few days?
In any case going to the world cup is a sacrifice for john. He supports manchester city so obviously hates football any way. It's an heroic gesture on his part
Dave
Thursday Jun 15, 13:04
Now that John Leech is spending so much time in London, I guess he will be giving up his season ticket for City. When in Rome.... blah blah blah, being a New Londoner will he be supporting Man Utd? At least he can share petrol with Arsenel fans etc lol
peter h
Saturday Jun 17, 00:01
as a matter of interest, I wonder if any labout mps have gone to watch england's matches?
Thomas
Saturday Jun 17, 10:05
I don't know Peter, I don't know much about the parliamentary team... it seems likely that there will be some. In terms of the amount of time, I guess it was just a couple of days - he missed his surgery on the Friday and the festival on the Saturday.
peter h
Saturday Jun 17, 21:33
no doubt all mps miss the occasional surgey. As for the festival, well john has a very, very long track record of attendance at local functions, so give it a rest thomas.
You are trying to be his self-appointed watchdog and it does your cause no good, because it comes over as pettiness.
In truth, there is no serious criticism to level at his perfroamnce as an MP, so you pick up breadcrumbs and try to make them out to be loaves.
If you want to win this seat back, you should be attending to Labour's failings. They are what lost the seat, and curing them is what will win it back, not trying to make out that john not going to the didsbury festival is some kind of heinous crime.
Dave
Sunday Jun 18, 18:00
Peter, you are so right (again!)
Thomas
Sunday Jun 18, 18:01
http://www.southmanchesterreporter.co.uk/news/s/214/214175_oh_no_its_toebago.html
Poor John has broken his toe :s
Alan
Sunday Jun 18, 22:05
Come on guys I hate agreeing with Peter so much. I'm no fan of John Leech I think that I've established that but come on. There is a war in Iraq and Afghanistan, people are still living in cardboard boxes on the streets of London and people throughout the world are still dying of starvation because western countries are too scared to intervene when their own interests are not at stake. Surely the fact that John Boy didn't go to the Didsbury festival and missed one of his surgeries pales into insignificance.
Whatsmore it looks like he's been punished enough with his broken toe!!!
Thomas
Monday Jun 19, 00:03
I wasn't necessarily criticising, just explaining why I knew he had been away for at least two days...
I agree that all MPs must miss the occasional surgery, and I would hope that they don't take the decision lightly, but at the end of the day they can always be rescheduled.
Dave
Monday Jun 19, 08:48
I see in a recent Yougov survey, most Labour supporters want T Blair out by Autumn 2007. Did you take part in the survey Thomas?
Thomas
Monday Jun 19, 08:50
Yes
Dave
Monday Jun 19, 10:14
Do you think Blair should stay or go?
Labourite
Monday Jun 19, 12:13
Hmm, fat and unfit. Thats a bit harsh.
Dave
Monday Jun 19, 17:51
I find it worrying that Alan and Peter are agreeing. Soon we won't be able to tell you apart, it will be like New Labour and The Conservatives!
Labourite
Monday Jun 19, 17:59
What Conservatives that opposed ASBOs and tax credits.
Dave
Monday Jun 19, 18:31
If the Tories opposed ASBO's it looks like they are finally moving in the right direction after all! As for Tax Credit's system, well that is another Labour cock up - how ineffiecent can an organisation be?
No I was think more along the lines of PFI or as the Tories called it in the 80's - Privatisation!
Dave
Monday Jun 19, 18:32
By the way, should it not be Labour(leantothe)Right as opposed to Labourite?
Alan
Monday Jun 19, 20:17
I think that Labour (lean to the right) would better describe me Dave!
Alan
Monday Jun 19, 20:20
Just wanted to cut and paste this comment into this posting incase anyone missed it!! Someone is speaking sense!!
It's three jobs. Crap MP, crap councillor, fat unfit footballer. Sunday Jun 18, 18:15
Cycle - This item is supposed to be about cycling!!!! John Leech signed a daft Lembit opik EDM to allow motorbikes in bus/bike lanes in westminster but failed to sign a sensible one trying to get mini motorbikes and such like off our paths and bridleways. Mr Leech may pose on a bike in the paper but he is no friend of the cyclist.
Recycling - one of the Lib Dem themes in their hugely unsuccessful local election campaign (10-0 drubbing by Labour) was recycling. Yet Lib Dem Liverpool is recycling only about half as much despite a long Lib Dem tenure and £100 higher council Tax. Liverpool is in the bottom ten national;ly out of nearly 400 authorities. Manchester is towards the top of the metros and cities and will hit 18% this year and 22% next. The only recycling Lib Dems are doing properly are fibs.
Finally - I think the person who keeps saying they are a Labour supporter, voted for Leech, and think he has the making of a good MP is mistaken about two of those things!
Thomas Graham Watch
Monday Jun 19, 21:45
I thought that I would do a bit of digging over John's Germany trip. It seems they were there for 3 nights. Not quite sure why John got all the stick - 10 MPs, 1 Councillor (who works for an MP) and 1 Baroness went, plus a few other researcher types, although rumour has it that the son of one of the MPs was there too! ALL of the other MPs apart from John were Labour and the Councillor and Baroness too. The Labour ministers did not turn down free tickets, they were told by the Government that they could not go to Germany. John was the only one who gave up his ticket - I think he's mad personally, but that for him to decide.
Alan Gormley Watch
Monday Jun 19, 21:55
Alan, you really should get your facts right - John signed an EDM which supported motorcycles being allowed onto bus lanes, NOT cycle lanes. As far as recycling is concerned, which Council in Greater Manchester has the best (by far) recycling record? Oh guess what, it's Lib Dem run Stockport. (Over 30% and increasing). It's simply not true to give the impression that Lib Dem councils are poor on recycling. Yes, Liverpool needs to do a lot better, but when the Lib Dems took over in Liverpool, they inherited the worst (Labour) Council in the Country and they have made spectacular progress in the last few years.
Dave
Tuesday Jun 20, 08:44
Alan Gormley Watch, In "Alan's" defence, he was just cutting and pasting something from another thread on this site that had been overlooked (I saw it, but couldn't be bothered replying to it).
I think Liverpool is doing great considering how long Labour had run it into the ground. Having worked and lived in Stockport in the past, I also agree with you that they are far more ahead than Manchester when it comes to waste management.
Steve
Tuesday Jun 20, 10:12
Ahead in waste management? You are deluded.
THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE WHEELIE BINS.
Dave
Tuesday Jun 20, 10:16
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/19062006/325/support-labour-drops.html
I see support for Labour is at a 19 year low. Not since the heavy defeat of 1987 general election have they been so low. How will they make a come back (if ever)? Shame that the Labour clone (aka The Tories) are increasing their support.
I am moving out of area soon (to another Lib Dem stronghold area), but I do hope more independents start to stand. I am getting fed up with "party politics". I think all the main parties are as bad as one another, it's just that the Lib Dems are the best of a bad bunch in my opinion.
Dave
Tuesday Jun 20, 10:49
Not having wheelie bins isn't neccessaryly a bad thing (nor a good thing). Go down to Studentville aka Fallowfield/LadyBarn and tell me wheelie bins are a good idea!
Labourite
Tuesday Jun 20, 11:19
Labour lean to the right, thats a hilarious one. How about, labour, doing the right thing. I agree with PFIs but recognise that a lot of the time, the public service works better.
However, ASBOs are the right thing to do. You go into local communities like Harpurhey and Gorton, tell them ASBOs aren't working when they are making real improvements.
Dave
Tuesday Jun 20, 12:37
ASBO's are 52% sucessful according the Home Office, hardly something to shout about! I work with Young Offenders, I know ASBO's are not working!
Steve
Tuesday Jun 20, 12:45
Do you suppose he cycles to countries on diplomatic trips?
Dave
Tuesday Jun 20, 12:57
Nope but he could use the train to get around our country. He could also use Eurostar to travel to other parts of Europe. Try and cut down air miles (that is of course if Labour are as serious as they pretend to be when it comes to issues of the enviroment!)
Alan
Tuesday Jun 20, 21:48
Labour may very well be at an all time low Dave, that's the way the British mind set works. It's always the way, after a period of time, whether a government is good or bad the public look elsewhere. Labour could abolish all taxes and still the British public would still vote against them. I'm not denying that Labour have done some things badly but overall they have transformed this country, under the leadership of Tony Blair, into a country that I am proud to live in. You can all say what you like but I think anyone posting on this site will find it very difficult to dispute the fact that this country is far better off under this Labour government than it ever was under the Tories!!
peter h
Tuesday Jun 20, 22:48
no government should be in power more than 8 years or so. They all get stale, complacent, arrogant, be they labour, tory or lib dem (if they ever got that far). So Labour is due for the boot. Maybe this time we'll finally get a hung parliament and some hope of PR to end this idiotic labour/tory cycle and the obscenity of a government with 25% support having a majority.
Labour was great fror a few years. Unfortunately power went to tony blair's head depressingly quickly and we found ourselves with a president we hadnt voted for, not to mention a war
Dave
Wednesday Jun 21, 09:04
Their is no denying that Labour in their first term (and part of the second term) were better than any government of the past 30 or more years, however, like Peter stated power went to Tony's head like nothing else before, even more than Thatcher in my honest opinion!
Alan
Wednesday Jun 21, 20:12
Dave, no one is as bad as that woman!!
labourite
Wednesday Jun 21, 21:58
Sorry has TB created mass unemployment, put interest rates at 15%, wrecked our cities.
Dave
Thursday Jun 22, 08:35
Labourite, TB the cities, unemployment rate and interest rates of Iraq are much more wrecked than this country's will ever be, thanks to TB and his boss from the mothership aka Bush/USA!
Labourite
Thursday Jun 22, 10:40
However the people Of Iraq now how the chance to enjoy the democratic freedom that we take for granted and escape the terrible oppression of Saadam Hussain.
Labourite
Thursday Jun 22, 10:40
However the people Of Iraq now how the chance to enjoy the democratic freedom that we take for granted and escape the terrible oppression of Saadam Hussain.
Dave
Thursday Jun 22, 12:45
A "chance to enjoy democratic freedom"? Have you not seen the news lately?
Alan
Thursday Jun 22, 18:20
Should we really beleive everything we see in the news???
peter h
Thursday Jun 22, 21:21
actually, you'll find interest rates and employment patterns are not particularly the result of british governments.
They mirror Europe-wide trends, so Tony Blair can't claim some kind of miracle on them, and Kenneth Clark repaired a lot of the damage done by earlier tory clowns before it was passed to Gordon Brown.
I would dispute that Labour has handled the economy well any way, at least for the long term.
Manufacturing is upon its knees. High paid, high skill, manufacturing jobs are being exchanged for mediocre service industry jobs.
People, especially younger generations , are up to their necks in debt to a level unsustainable in the long term. When interest rates rise, and they will at some point, millions will be in dire trouble.
The average house price is 5 times the average annual wage (which is a disaster), pensions have not kept up with wages, our national debt is sky high, there is strong evidence that major public investment projects (eg NHS), are being badly mishandled, our major industries and public utilities are being sold off to foreign owners (all the profits announced yesterday to Thames Water go straight to Germany, for instance. Our ports have just been sold to Dubasi, our airports about to go to spain etc etc) or to PFIs.
Margaret Thatcher was indeed a monster to any socialist, but I should remind you , Mr Labourite, that Tony Blair is a big fan of Mrs Thatcher, and Mrs Thatcher is a big admirer of New Labour. She claims it as her best legacy. Does that not tell you ANYTHING, mr Labourite? Ever had the feeling you have been conned?
Labourite
Thursday Jun 22, 22:39
Sorry for posting twice. Yes I have seen the news; but we will not fail the people of Iraq by pulling out. We will not let Iraq be gripped by long term sectarian violence.
Dave
Friday Jun 23, 08:50
Maggie Thatcher is like the evil emperor in the Star Wars movies, and Blair is like Vadar, started off great, but turned to the Dark Side! lol
peter h
Friday Jun 23, 23:03
Mr Labourite, it's not up to you or any other english person "not to let Iraqis" settle their differences in whatever way they choose.
It's an artifical country to begin with created by the west to suit western interests with no regard to local interests or traditions.
It's going to implode. Live with it. Let it split into its natural segments. Only then will stand any chance of settling down. The Kurds want a Kurdistan - and why not? - and the Sunnis and Shias have different traditions and regard each other as heretics. Iraq shouldnt be a country in the first place. Let its lid blow.
Alan
Sunday Jun 25, 18:57
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4770231.stm
Changing the subject slightly, what do we all think about this??
Alan
Sunday Jun 25, 19:21
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Leech_%28politician%29
What a very fetching picture!!Just screams dynamism/ cutting edge!!
peter h
Sunday Jun 25, 23:38
beware of politicians trying to erode civil liberties in the name of security. It's immoral. And it doesnt work.
Dave
Monday Jun 26, 14:50
I see Dave Cameron is trying to get in on the act too (pardon the pun)!
Alan
Monday Jun 26, 19:58
Would you say that it is right to allow the 9 people who held up the plane at Stanstead to be allowed citizenship in this country Peter?
peter h
Monday Jun 26, 20:15
I'm more interested in not allowing cases like that to be used as an excuse to erode our civil liberties. There will always be anomalies, and that may be one.
But, as it happens, I assume they can be returned to Afghanistan any way now since the government they were fleeing from no longer exists. Otherwise what did we just spend several billion quid on?
I have no sympathy with fake asylum seekers. They ruin things for genuine refugees. They commit criminal acts to get here. Most have been able to find several thousand pounds to pay people traffickers to get them here, so they couldnt have been that desperate.
Dave
Tuesday Jun 27, 08:58
Having worked with child refugees from Kosovo in the mid-1990's, I agree with Peter that it is a shame that we have the Stanstead issue printed over all the tabloids and the vast majority of the UK public base their knowledge of all issues relating to immigration (legal and illegal) on that sole news story, and a few other stories in a similar vain!
Like Alan stated only a few days ago, You Don't Believe Everything You See In The News?
peter h
Wednesday Jun 28, 00:06
the whole concept of "refugees" has been debased by people traffickers and those who abuse the system for economic migration.
We really need to stamp out illegal immigration once and for all and to remove illegal immigrants from this country. Not to appease the fascists in the Daily Mail, but in order to regain control of our own borders. Then we can be a worthy home for genuine refugees, and actually invite legitimate immigrants rather than being forced to accept those who choose to break our laws in getting here. the current system rewards crime and blocks out legitimate immigrants
Dave
Wednesday Jun 28, 08:34
I also think that some Daily Mail (et al) readers need to also consider migration from this country too. I had an interesting debate with some guy who "was sick to the back teeth" of illegal immigrants and this government so much that he was moving to Bulgaria!?!?! I pointed out the irony of him abusing the system over their etc taking jobs, pushing house prices up etc
peter h
Wednesday Jun 28, 23:09
those prats don't seem to realise that the actual percentage of immigrants is minute. It just sometimes seems greater because of their natural tendency to congregate in certain areas.
And also, legality to one side for a moment, immigrants tend to bring new life and dynamism. The "scrounger" image is a myth. People who travel half way across the world do so to better themselves by hard work.
Let him try his hand in bulgaria. He'll love the standard of living there! Not to mention learning the language. Maybe he'll begin to understand just how hard things are for a new immigrant
peter h
Thursday Jun 29, 21:19
quotes from today's guardian. I'd be interested to hear which bits our loyal new labour activists disagree with:
"Tony Blair’s assertion of a society in which poverty and social exclusion are on the decline is simply preposterous.
Here are the facts: Britain has the worst social indicators of any nation in western Europe. We have the highest rate of child and pensioner poverty; the lowest-paid workers working the longest hours; the most underfunded healthcare and education provision; the highest-paid corporate and management executives; and the highest prison population. Life expectancy for males in the poorest parts of the country are comparable to developing countries, and we hold the onerous title of the most violent society in the western world, according to UN figures.
New Labour, rather than a party of the millions, is a party of the millionaires. Our society has never been more polarised, and fanned by reactionary statements and speeches from Blair and his cohorts, a culture of Islamophobia and vigilantism permeates the police and security services at the same time as our judicial system has come under sustained attack.
The most delusional aspect of Tony Blair's self justification is that "we have a proud economic record".
In fact, New Labour has given up on a conventional economic system that distributes purchasing power through wages. It is running an economy where earnings are supplemented by a supply of low-interest credit channelled through the housing market and coming out loaded with debt. The result is that people reach the limit on their credit cards, after having made over too much of their salaries to pay the mortgage, while the young cannot afford houses at all, the land underneath having risen above the value of the bricks and mortar.
Blair (and the so-called opposition) pander to middle-aged owner occupiers by letting house prices spiral out of control in a way that not only wrecks Keynesian demand management but corrupts the democratic process. If, as Blair thinks, New Labour has worked a minor economic miracle, why is everybody so pissed off?
Dave
Friday Jun 30, 08:50
What lovely results for Labour in the by-elections eh? I love the fact that everytime Labour is defeated at the polls, they say "we obviously need to listen". It's all very good listening, but when are they going to take action, and who are they listening too (I thought they just tapped phone calls from potential terrorists? lol)
Alan
Friday Jun 30, 15:08
Peter 'The Guardian' is rubbish (that's my response)
Dave
Friday Jun 30, 16:03
I quite like the Guardian, prefer the Independent, but since the wife likes the Guardian and the Observer, that's what we tend to read.
Alan
Friday Jun 30, 18:20
I used to read the Guardian from cover to cover every day, religiously even but nowadays I find I get more sense out of the Sun.. sad times we live in!!
peter h
Friday Jun 30, 22:50
thank you for your indepth analysis alan. the Sun is about to shift back to tory, by the way.
peter h
Saturday Jul 01, 23:23
bet you lot arent jealous any more of john leech getting world cup tickets! What abunch of overpriced puddings. Like a Mr Kipling display stand.
Alan
Sunday Jul 02, 10:25
Agreed!!!
Dave
Monday Jul 03, 14:58
Manchester City fans like John Leech and England fans have so much in common - they must be some of the most optimistic of fans. Good on them, just a shame about their teams!
Is it a fool who follows the fool?
peter h
Monday Jul 03, 21:11
they said the first word war troops were lions led by donkeys. In this case it was donkeys led by an ass
Dave
Tuesday Jul 04, 10:29
Suprised no one else commented on the by-election results of last week.
John Holliker
Tuesday Jul 04, 17:40
Yes, by-election results were hardly a great endorsement of Mr Blair and co.. Pointless to argue otherwise. But also recognise it as the Lib Dems appealing to natural Tory voters and trying to command the centre right.
Which is ironic...given their left-of-labour campaign in Withington last year!
peter h
Tuesday Jul 04, 22:08
surely its a good thing if a party can appeal to left AND right?
Dave
Wednesday Jul 05, 08:51
"Liberal" according to the dictionary is:
Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
"Democrat" An advocate of democracy.
One who believes in social equality or discounts distinctions in rank.
Neither word has anything to do with left leaning, or right leaning politics. It's just how the media like to potray the Lib Dems as being a party that sucks up to who think it will get the vote from, but I could say the same for New "Labour" and for the Tories
Dave
Wednesday Jul 05, 14:42
besides which, I don't think the terms left and right are important when it comes to the main political parties anymore. It's only relevent to far right and far left groups (which also have some similar traits!)
peter h
Wednesday Jul 05, 18:18
well said. Always worth remembering that Nazis were National Socialists, which might explain John Reid
Dave
Thursday Jul 06, 10:45
It would explain half of the Labour party, not just John Reid
Alan
Friday Jul 07, 08:05
Listen to you two, you're like a couple of old women!
Dave
Friday Jul 07, 08:57
I am Davina at the weekends Alan, so you're not far off from being wrong
peter h
Friday Jul 07, 22:40
oh dear alan, you're running out of ideas.
methinks you'll be going back to the tories next election.
go on, admit it,it's your natural home. that's why you like tony blair so much
celia
Sunday Jul 09, 22:54
You lot on here should start a new political party. God know's...we need one!
John Holliker
Monday Jul 10, 09:26
Peter, David,
I think we've been here before but surely it's disingenious for a party to pander to the Tory Right down south (pro-ASBO, pro-liberal trade, anti immigration policies) and then do a complete u-turn in the northern inner cities.
Here's a better example - the Lib Dems favour a relaxation of Sunday trading laws nationally, so ASDA/tesco et al can put more small retailers out of business...but Mr Leech signs EDMs opposing such a policy.
It's complete arses and elbows if you ask me.
Alan
Monday Jul 10, 16:28
Peter, not related to politics atall, do you think it is wise to invest in Chinese markets?? I am looking to start investing my money.. in the hope of making large returns.. instead of buying suits from River Island every week!! As you do business over there I thought you might know something about it. I would be grateful for any advice! Cheers
peter h
Monday Jul 10, 20:07
john, your arguments may well be right, but I think you miss the point as regards why some of us voted Lib Dem..
I think you will find that both Dave and I voted against Labour because we felt so betrayed by the way they have gone recently, and Lib Dems offered the most acceptable option, and John Leech specifically has been such a good active councillor that he got a lot of people's votes on the strength of his local record.
I regard myself as a left winger, a socialist, and I get daily more depressed at how Labour has degenerated over the last 5 or 6 years. I can't speak for Dave, but I feel very, very angry about what has become of the party's principles. Buffoons like prescot, nasty little 2 dimensional cutout clowns like John Reid, the stench of corruption and cronyism around so many senior politicians, our being turned into the puppets of the most rightwing US government in living memory.
You know the script.
If there are discrepancies in Lib Dem policies, so be it. But they pale into insignificance when compared to the corruption and arrogant hypocrisy of New Labour.
peter h
Monday Jul 10, 20:20
alan, I can't answer you.
Whatever cash I've had is invested in my own business, plus pension funds.
Never really liked the idea of buying stocks and shares. I don't really like capitalism.
For what it's worth, I'd suggest that China is a long way away and you should invest nearer home. You'll have a better chance of understanding it and less chance of backing the wrong horse through ignorance or fraud. There is huge growth in China, but equally long term there'll be huge fallouts, and a bloke sat in manchester has no way of telling the tigers from the tossers. sorry I can't be more helpful.
Dave
Tuesday Jul 11, 09:30
I think Peter summed up my attitude towards Labour pretty well. I still see myself as Labour deep down inside me somewhere, sadly New Labour has no socialist principles whatsoever. I voted Lib Dems as I like John Leech as a councillor, as I quite like some Lib Dem policies, as the Tories and any indpendents had no chance in Chorlton; and mainly due to Genetically Modified Crop trials; ASBO's; Third World Debt (admittedly they have made the right noises, but little else); Sure Start; Banning of Handguns; Downgrading of Cannabis from Class B to Class C; ID cards; Student/University funding; Iraq; Iraq; and not forgetting Iraq etc etc and more recently Nuclear Power Stations; Anti-Terrorism Laws....
Alan
Tuesday Jul 11, 18:18
Thanks for the advice Peter
peter h
Tuesday Jul 11, 21:12
To answer john holliker a bit more, the trust has gone as regards labour.
Iraq was the catalyst, but it has been a drip drip over several years, and I simply don't trust Tony Blair.
It's happened again this week with Nuclear power.
He's made up his mind some time ago that Nuclear power is to be stepped up. It's been obvious for some time that the decision has already been taken by Blair and his inner circle, and we've been subjected to a time of bogus discussion and debate to put a gloss on that to make it seem like there is a democratic process going on, when there is not. It's a fundamentally dishonest method of government.
And, by the way, I am not antinuclear.
Alan
Wednesday Jul 12, 18:19
This whole issue of nuclear power annoys me! It is the most effective way to ensure we have the energy we need for the future yet there are people campaigning agianst it! the most annoying part of it is, these idiots are all for 'alternative power' yet if you suggest building a wind turbine anywhere near their house they complain!!! What do these cretins suggest we do???!!
Dave
Thursday Jul 13, 08:33
I must be one of those "cretins" and/or "idiots" you refer to Alan. I am happy to have a wind turbine installed on my house. I am happy for tidal barriers to be created at Morecambe Bay and the Bristol Channel. I am happy for all new builds to have photovolatic panels for a roof instead of slate. I am happy for wood chip boilers to be installed in houses instead of gas boilers. I am happy for more energy efficient minimum standards on electrical goods etc etc
Alan
Thursday Jul 13, 13:45
Dave, you mis understand me. I am talking about those who say no to nuclear and then protest when a planning application goes through for a wind turbine near their house! If it works then I'm all for wind turbines but I think it's naive to believe that these are the answer to a future energy crisis.
Dave
Friday Jul 14, 08:33
To be honest the vast majority (if not all) the people I know who are for more renewables, would be more than happy to have a wind turbine on their house, let a lone near their house!
Dave
Friday Jul 14, 08:33
Picked this up from another forum, made the start of my day, to the music of rawhide!
Verse1: Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'
Ain't movin' movin' movin'
Though they're disapprovin
Keep them tabloids movin'
Rawhide!
I'd rather read the Beano
or build a new casino
Still I'll go on livin' high and wide
Boy, my heart's calculatin'
My Tracey will be waitin', be waitin'
For a secret office ride
Verse 2: Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'
Though my stomach's swollen
Keep them tabloids rollin'
Rawhide!
It's me and Tone together
And Dorneywood for ever
My croquet stick and champers by my side
There's nothin' I am missin'
Good vittles, love and kissin'
Even though I'm big and fat and wide
Verse3: Ain't movin' movin' movin'
Though they're disapprovin'
While my wife I'm soothin'
Rawhide!
The papers just can't stand me
Just photograph and brand me
But I'll go on livin' high and wide
I'm truly calculatin'
my whopping wages waiting
While I take the public for a ride
Rawhide! Rawhide
peter h
Saturday Jul 15, 00:04
Alan
Nuclear probably is the best way, BUT we have a moral duty to future generations by solving the problem of radioactive waste too.
We can't have the rights without the duties. you should no that as a soldier.
As for wind turbines. I strongly disapprove. Partly on aesthetic grounds - and why not on aesthetic grounds? do we have to ruin th countryside just to get electricity to run our playstations? I just drove past Abergele and the sea's full of them - partly because I flatly refuse to believe they do a good job -they do not look very well designed, and partly because they kill god knows how many birds and we have a duty to the other species on the planet, not just our own.
OK, we need to handle energy better in all sorts of ways, but not at the expense of other species and not at the expense of landing our descendants with a more dangewrous world. What's the point of combatting global warming with one hand and riddling it with nuclear time bombs on the other? We need better ways of doing this.
Alan
Monday Jul 17, 18:24
Peter, I understand your argument but what is the alternative?? I'm all for looking at new ways but they have to be practical and meet our future energy demands. Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting the government for the sake of supporting them on this; I just don't see any other alternative. It's a difficult one because I'm not sure what my argument on it is??
peter h
Monday Jul 17, 22:40
I'm no expert either, but I guess it will be a mixture of things, and then some genius will come up with a new way of doing things which will render fossil fuels and nuclear power obsolete. Fast forward 50 years and the petrol engine, for starters, will be dead
John Holliker
Tuesday Jul 18, 15:04
Peter
The way things are in the Middle East I think the human race will die out before the petrol engine.
peter h
Tuesday Jul 18, 22:48
I can remember walking through a palestinian refugee camp in around 1973 or so just outside beirut, a week before the Israeli air force flattened it and the western press reported it as a successful attack on a terrorist camp.
30 years later it's still the same old crap, Israel getting away with mass murder , protected by the Americans while the rest of us stand by and do nothing.
Maybe youre right and armaggedon is round the corner there.
Alan
Wednesday Jul 19, 23:31
The Palestinians are not blameless!!
peter h
Thursday Jul 20, 17:21
nobody's blameless. but just add up the numbers dead - especially innocent civilians, and draw your own conclusions
celia
Friday Aug 11, 17:15
GLAD YOU HAVE NOTED YOU ARE ALL NO EXPERTS....ON AN ISSUE THAT, SOMEBODY HOPEFULLY, WILL TEACH YOU ABOUT
annon
Friday Aug 11, 17:27
God you people are really boring and your lack of knowledge on the Middle East stands out a mile.
The Labour Party is alinged with the Iraqi Communist Party run Iraqi Federation of Trade Unions, which is aligned with your wonderfull Anne clwyd, who is also affectionately known by aid workers and journalists as "Mrs. Talabani".
I would like to question the financial affairs and movements of such Labour MP's, did Ms. Clwyd obtain money from Moscow through the Communist movement to fund CARDRI during the 1980's, an organisation she was chair of and did she get money from Washington to fund the INDICT Campaign during the 1990's, which she also ran with convicted fraudster Ahmed Chalabi.
When did Ann go to Iraq, to bear witness to the so-called crimes of Saddam, where is her photographic evidence?
Infact, she may have enterred illegally through Kurdistan, seeing as though she never applied for a visa from the embassey.
What do labour members have to say about illegal immigration?
annon continued
Friday Aug 11, 20:26
Forgive me comrades, but I also forgot to mention before, another Labour act of solidarity towards the Iraqi people.
In the year 2000, a conference was held at the Manchester Town Hall and was organised by some Labour Party members who also happen to be in CND.
The conference was opened by a leading "Labour" councillor and was happy to greet an honoured guest from Iraq.
The guest happened to be a member of the Revolutionary Command Council, for those who don't know the RCC was the cabinet of Saddam Hussain.
Huda Ammash was called, after the so-called liberation of Iraq "Mrs Anthrax", for her alledged role in helping Saddam to build his so-called "weapons of mass destruction".
I can hear now, that Town Hall rejects will claim that they did not know who Huda Ammash was but strange enough, her father was also part of Saddams cabinet and was killed on national TV in the very early eighties.
Ms. Ammash was an extremely prominant personality throughout the 1990's and more so since the invasion.
Maybe the fact, that members of Saddam Hussains regime are greeted by the Labour Party, here in Manchester, demonstrates how little Labour actually know about Iraq and Iraqi politics.
How embarressing for a party that now exports "democracy" and "freedom" to the Middle East, that they themselves had the "notorious Mrs anthrax" in their own Town Halls.
Atleast I know what my taxes are paying for, in this great city of "peace"!
Alan
Monday Sep 04, 12:03
Can people please own up and post their name when they talk sh*t... thanks!!
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