Posted by Steve on Sunday Apr 01, 12:41
Lucy Powell has been selected by the the Labour party to fight John Leech at the next General Election.
The members in the constituency voted to select Lucy from a shortlist of five extremely talented candidates, each of whom spoke for ten minutes and took questions for a further ten minutes at the husting. They each received the following votes:
| Lucy Powell | 168 |
| Jenny Lennox | 32 |
| Nargis Khan | 30 |
| Naheed Arshad-Mather | 26 |
| Yogesh Virmani | 11 |
Lucy Powell clearly has a resounding mandate from the members. What's more, it is likely that she will reinvigorate the membership with people already saying things like, "2 hours and five speeches later I am surprised to report that my mojo is on the way back. Two things did it for me. Being with 150 other people prepared to give up a lovely sunny Saturday afternoon, all of us feeling a sense of lost opportunity about the last 5 years, all of us with a sense of pride in what Labour has done. But most of all we have chosen an exceptional candidate."
Should John Leech be scared of a resurgent Labour party locally with a candidate in place?
+ tags coming soon
( 143 Comments )
Alan
Sunday Apr 01, 16:30
Looks promising, anything that removes the incompetent, un- intelligent and dull good for nothing that is currently in office is a step in the right direction.
peter h
Sunday Apr 01, 18:38
no.
If Ms Powell has to depend on the berks who write on this website to get her message across, She'll be lucky to hang on to her deposit.
John
Sunday Apr 01, 18:44
Why are you so offensive Peter? Lucy isn't part of this government, she hasn't even stood as a Labour candidate before. Why are you *so* against the Labour party that you can't even hear what someone has to say for themselves before writing her off? You should listen to the arguments... I voted for John Leech last time because I was fed up with Keith Bradley, but I'll at least listen to what she has to say before making up my mind.
peter h
Sunday Apr 01, 22:09
I wasnt being offensive about her, John, but about some of her supporters who pour constant infantile vitriol on John Leech on this website (not all the contributors are like that).
But with respect the election won't be about her or John Leech personally. John may be popular locally and have been a long-time grass roots hard worker, but that was not enough to win him the seat. It was Labour's national policies being rejected by the local electorate which did that.
And the same will apply next time.It will be about the Labour government, so you can't say the labour government has got nothing to do with her. She'll be there seeking to join that government and supporting it.
peter h
Sunday Apr 01, 22:12
and I stand by my comment that if those berks who do pour the vitriol on JL on this website are let loose on the local electorate here they'll lose Lucy Powell votes in spades.
Dave
Monday Apr 02, 09:10
I helped get Leech in (as most of you know), and I have moved out of the area recently, but I am not sure I would vote for Leech again. However, I know for certain that I wouldn't vote for ANY "Labour" candidate, regardless of how well they campaigned; or the quality of the candidate. If Lucy stood as an independent, I would give her some serious consideration. Labour isn't working, I think was the old Tory campaign slogan from way back, and I think it is relevant now. In fact what the slogan should be is "Labour isn't Labour"!
Dave
Monday Apr 02, 09:11
To answer the question, yes Leech should be scared. He hasn't done himself any favours, however, I also think Lucy should be scared, as I know many ex-labour supporters who still feel very angry and let down by the Labour government, and they will still use a protest vote, or not vote at all, unless a clear alternative is put to them.
Dave
Monday Apr 02, 09:29
At least she acknowledges she supports lost causes (eg Man City and Labour) By the way, I am not a footie fan, but I am a Man City fan by default (that is to say my wife is a Man City fan, the most inconsistantly consistant team in the premiership!)
peter h
Tuesday Apr 03, 17:16
come on Dave, you can't be a football fan AND support Manchester City.
sedgelypark
Tuesday Apr 03, 22:40
Peter, are you a Red by any chance..if so you sink still further in my estimation.
And you answer the question if I was Two Jobs I'd be very worried.
A well connected, media friendly, very smart young woman with a massive mandate from a local CLP determined to take this seat back.
I think he is finished.
Remember by this point Fib Dems who have won rock solid Labour seats in upsets tend to be well entrenched by this point having done the hard work.
Leech seems to be shunned by his own party wheres having talked to people who were at the selection Withington CLP are totally behind Lucy.
I'll certainly be out on the knocker for her and I really think she has exactly what it takes to defeat Leech.
I've talked to a number of MPs who can't believe just how inept he is. He is a laughing stock and the ease he is slapped down by ministers when asking question is both shocking and sad.
bye, bye Johnny...it was shite knowing you.
Dave
Wednesday Apr 04, 11:45
Football fan by default. I would rather be a City fan than some London clubs (like Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd). At least you don't know what to expect with City, whereas with Utd, Chelsea, and Asrenal, you know what you are getting. City bring excitment to a game, and even when they slipped way down to other divisions they had huge crowds compared to other teams in the league. If (and I know it is a big IF) UTD ever dropped down a couple of divisions, I would be interested to see how many fans slope off to support other teams!
Richard
Wednesday Apr 04, 18:02
I'm not the biggest fan of John Leech, but I think we were all glad to see Bradley go. As for Lucy, I hope her pro-iraq war stance proves popular with the voters ;-)
peter h
Wednesday Apr 04, 19:30
Sedge, is that the same CLP that helped Keith Bradley to such a stunning victory last time round? add another C and you can be cloud cuckoo land party
sedgelypark
Wednesday Apr 04, 22:24
For a man who boasts about Manchester's answer to Richard Branson (or maybe a poor man's Alan Sugar)running his own business you don't seem to realise that in order to survive organisations adapt or die.
Withington CLP have learnt the lessons and Lucy Powell will not be another Keith B who was amazingly complacent. Next time they they will run a focused campiagn with a very good canidate.
Richard, Lucy is on the record as anti-war..not Respect mad anti-war but enough for the Didsbury chatterati. Or indeed Fin anti-war bit voting to spend more money on a war they are supposed to oppose.
Peter, Leech is done for...time to get used to it.
Dave
Thursday Apr 05, 08:45
I bet it will be a real close call (closer than last time). I wouldn't like to place a bet on it (in a bookies or a super casino)! Out of the few people I have spoken to it seems voter apathy will be the biggest problem in the Chorlton/Withington/Didsbury area. I think most people agree that Leech is pretty useless, but they don't see an alternative (yet!)
John Holliker
Thursday Apr 05, 19:40
Sedgeley. You continue to have a very very very selective memory.
peter h
Thursday Apr 05, 23:21
sedgeley, it's a bit late to be reorganizing. You already lost the seat. Those voters that turned their back on Labour last time ain't going to revert just because you run a focussed campaign It isnt you theyre voting for primarily. Or Lucy. It's for a government.
Nationally Labour will be even less popular next time than last time due to no fault of you or your colleagues.
So you won't be able to overcome the primary reason for losing the seat last time. It's out of local hands.
As for the secondary reason - ie the personality and performance of JL as an MP, the people I know who voted for him last time, none of whom would call themselves Lib Dems, will continue to vote for him because he's continued to support their causes. Our local Residents Association has been fighting a pitch battle over attempts locally to build in Marie Louise Gardens. John Leech turned up to support. He was physically there doing his bit.
Labour on the other hand tried to shut the objectors up and give the appearance of supporting the developer's interests against the local people's interests. No doubt Labour will win that - and in the process stick another nail in their own electoral coffin.
And I also assume that local lib dems will be at least as focussed as your side when the time comes.
So you get used to it.
And, thank you, but Branson and Sugar are not my way of doing business. I ain't got a beard for a start. And I know how one has to adapt or die. That is why people like myself and dave reluctantly stopped voting labour.
sedgelypark
Monday Apr 09, 12:36
Peter, that's thre sort aof complacency that lost Lord B his seat.
I'm not pretending ti will be easy but this time the candidate will be right and the campaign geared toi meeting the Fibs gutter tactics head on.
I think you're naive to think it just about Lab nationally plus Leech is hopeless which helps.
Remember Lab took back three seats locally last year that we lost because of national issues..when peopel see the Fibs in action they soon despair of them.
Leech will be no different. He is gone.
Phil
Monday Apr 09, 20:53
Anyone who thinks '2 jobs leech' has a hope of winning again is living on another planet. He is completely out of his depth as an MP and it shows. He is a barely competent councillor let alone MP. Look at him on TV when he makes his pathetic interventions. He looks dazed like a rabbit caught in a headlight when he got slapped down eg by Jowell for not doing his homework (again). We are compiling these clips and they will feature as a You Tube kick out 2 jobs leech in time for the election. Lucy will win next time and the Lib Dem lies about her being pro Iraq will not work. Did they not read last weeks South Manchester Reporter.
Dave
Monday Apr 09, 21:30
Like I say, I would rather vote for an independent than vote Labour until Blair is out and a full-page apology is written in all the national press from the Labour government for the decision to go to war in Iraq!
Apologies my a**e
Tuesday Apr 10, 00:49
When will Leech apologise for his Christie hoax?
Dave
Tuesday Apr 10, 09:19
I don't know when Leech will apologise, I assume it will be around the time Blair apologises for his cock up in Iraq
John Holliker
Tuesday Apr 10, 09:26
Gawd this is so repetitive. A little contrition from the Labour boys wouldn't go amiss. The yah-boo, sticks-and-stones macho posturing is pathetic. I'd be more interested in hearing their predictions for the local elections. Seven seats in the Withington constituency...I tip them to hold just one.
Dave
Tuesday Apr 10, 10:30
What seats are up for grabs in Withington, and who is contesting them?
Steve
Tuesday Apr 10, 10:31
Nice tip there John. Would sound less impressive if the liberals hadn't already won five of them. So what you are really saying is that you tip either Jeff Smith or Angela Gallagher to lose, and I'm pretty sure you mean Angela Gallagher. I guess we'll see, but personally I wouldn't be too happy if I'd voted for her as a LibDem only for her to defect.
John
Tuesday Apr 10, 12:53
The following Labour/LibDem candidates are standing, where the starred party is incumbent. People can still withdraw their nominations until midday tomorrow, and I haven't checked to see if any of the incumbent LibDems are retiring, but I'm pretty sure that this about right.
Burnage -
Labour: Frank Duffy
LibDem*: Iain Donaldson
Chorlton -
Labour*: Angela Gallagher
LibDem: Paul Ankers
Chorlton Park -
Labour: John Hacking
LibDem*: Tony Bethell
Didsbury East -
Labour: Geoff Bridson
LibDem*: Helen Fisher
Didsbury West -
Labour: David Ellison
LibDem*: Neil Trafford
Old Moat -
Labour*: Jeff Smith
LibDem: Richard Wilson
Withington -
Labour: Andrew Simcock
LibDem*: Alison Firth
I've no idea which Greens, Tories and randoms are standing, but Brian Candeland is probably standing somewhere.
Jamie Weston
Tuesday Apr 10, 14:00
Labour to take Old Moat, Burnage and Didsbury East if they can overcome the Blaire-bounce.
Chorlton Park should be interesting. Don't know much about the Labour bloke but with the current Lib Dem it's a case of Tony who, while the fabric of the estate decays.
Nice to know I have a choice of Lib Dem or Lib Dem mega-bucks donor in Chorlton!
Dave
Tuesday Apr 10, 14:06
When I lived on Merseybank, John and Norman were very proactive (and they didn't even live there), but I don't think I ever saw Tony, even though he only lived around the corner.
Stephen
Tuesday Apr 10, 14:34
I think that the current round of Lib Dem councillors are definitely the worst of the bunch. Helen Fisher in Didsbury East hasn't done a single thing in Didsbury East this year (or any other) and the same seems to be true of the other current LibDem cllrs elsewhere.
What are the two Lib Dem hopefuls like in Old Moat and Chorlton?
John Holliker
Tuesday Apr 10, 16:34
Crikey, talk about sorting the weak from the chaff! Betcha the turn out is meagre.
peter h
Tuesday Apr 10, 17:33
trouble is , Labour will still have a big majority on manchester council and still pay no attention to oppositon concerns. We have an elected dictatorship in this town. They often do a good job, but they ignore anybody that disagrees with them.
John Holliker
Wednesday Apr 11, 09:04
"they ignore anybody that disagrees with them"
...........must be like a busman's holiday for you.
Get back on topic
Wednesday Apr 11, 10:01
This site is not about the Labour Council, it's about John Leech.
So lets get back on topic. Please name one single thing that John Leech can claim as an achievement of his solely in his almost 2 years as an MP. Just one, not ten, one!
No prizes, just for fun!
Get back on topic
Wednesday Apr 11, 10:01
This site is not about the Labour Council, it's about John Leech.
So lets get back on topic. Please name one single thing that John Leech can claim as an achievement of his solely in his almost 2 years as an MP. Just one, not ten, one!
No prizes, just for fun!
Get back on topic
Wednesday Apr 11, 10:01
This site is not about the Labour Council, it's about John Leech.
So lets get back on topic. Please name one single thing that John Leech can claim as an achievement of his solely in his almost 2 years as an MP. Just one, not ten, one!
No prizes, just for fun!
John Holliker
Wednesday Apr 11, 11:31
Yep, let's not discuss the Labour Party. We might have questions. We don't have answers. (x3)
Fairs Fair
Wednesday Apr 11, 11:46
if you want to discuss the Labour Party then set up a Labour Party Watch website. This site is about John Leech MP. Nice avoiding of the issue though.. Oh and please don't include any replies that drone on about Iraq. We are not talking about Iraq either. It's JOHN LEECH we are talking about here. so let's talk about him.
Lets try one more time!
Name one achievement that John Leech MP can claim as his own in the last 23months as an MP.
Dave
Wednesday Apr 11, 13:30
Hey, I voted in Leech, quite happy that I did!
Not because Leech is any good as an MP, but a) he actually bothered to come and talk to potential voters (eg me) on numerous occassions (something which Bradley never did) b) he was the only real alternative to Labour
For me, I didn't care about Christies Hospital (just being honest) I cared about the War. Regardless of what Bradley said about the (planned)invasion he still stood for a party that was hell bent on going to war. I was amazed at the swing from Labour to Lib Dem, I didn't think for one minute Leech would knock Keith out of parliment (which he only did for a short time, as "Our Great Democracy" let Bradley in through the back door of the Lords)
So YES we are talking about Iraq. Ask the vast majority of those who voted to keep Bradley in during the 2001 elections (including me) and then ask why their was such a big swing. If you think it was because of Christies, you are sadly mistaken!
Dave
Wednesday Apr 11, 14:03
Until Labour start to get rid of the spin, rid of Blair and his cronnies, stop chruning out unnecessary laws, stop filling up the house of lords (more Baron's and Lords etc made, than when Thatcher was in power!), sort out "free" health care (that includes free access to dentists), and better spending on Education, get rid of the stupid ID card before it even starts, then, and only then, will many ex-labour supporters start to give them another chance. At the moment, I see very little difference in the three main parties.
and one more time......................
Wednesday Apr 11, 14:28
Name one achievement that John Leech MP can claim as his own in the last 23 months as an MP.
Dave
Wednesday Apr 11, 14:46
I don't know and I don't care. I think you are missing my point. My vote was a protest vote against the arrogance of the New Labour government. The arrogance is still there, so I won't be voting Labour. I shall be voting who ever I think has the best chance of keeping Labour out (unless that is Tory or the BNP or UKIP, then I will vote for the second best chance of keeping B Liars government out, however lucky for me, none of the three parties have a cat in hells chance!)
Dave
Wednesday Apr 11, 14:49
I think it would be an interesting piece of research to look into why people voted Leech. I doubt many would say it was because they liked him or his parties policies. Thus showing the local Labour activists that they are barking up the wrong tree!
....and for third time of asking.
Wednesday Apr 11, 16:18
Dave, I think its you that is missing the point. This site is about John Leech NOT the Labour Party. If you want to continue with your nonsense set up www.moaningaboutlabour.com or something.
Name one achievement that John Leech MP can claim as his own in the last 23 months as an MP.
sedgelypark
Wednesday Apr 11, 20:45
So dave you reason for voting for Leech again is Iraq despite the fact he is bloody useless.
And answer the question...what has he delivered??
peter h
Wednesday Apr 11, 22:22
name one good thing john leech has done? He won the seat and gave Labour a bloody nose.
And, whether you admit it or not, you have a Lib Dem MP because of Iraq.
Iraq is still there ands will still be there at the next election. That's not "droning on" , Fairs Fair, that's stating the single most important reason why you lost, you berk.
You may be bored with the subject (ie embarrassed because you know it's a millstone round your necks), but the voters ain't. If anything they're madder than ever about it. If you start trying to belittle that on the doorsteps round here, you'll get so many doors slammed in your face you'll have no nose left.
Dave
Thursday Apr 12, 09:02
Sedgelypark, you have obviously misunderstood me. I said I voted Leech in, but I didn't say I would DEFINATELY vote him in again. However, I do not see a real alternative, as I do not want a Labour MP until Labour sorts out the mess in Iraq, the mess in the Home Office, the mess in NHS, the mess that is the tax system, and finally the mess that is Blair!
Labour used to have some great policies in 1997 until 2003, sadly, I can't think of one great policy since!
So you may state that I have nothing to say about Leech, but until Labour sorts itself out, I don't think ex-labour voters such as myself and peter will be eagar to tick the Labour candidates box (regardless of how good she might be as an MP)
Dave
Thursday Apr 12, 09:53
Like Peter said, the one thing that he has done, he won the seat and took it from labour.
Unlike Labour when they make mistakes, I will admit that Leech hasn't done a good job as MP, and I will take that further and apologise to all you sour Labour supporters. However, unless something drastic happens before the next general election, I would imagine we will still have a "JOHN LEECH WATCH"
lets have a contest....
Thursday Apr 12, 09:54
In response to one of Peter H's contstnt refrains about what people round here think could we have a competition.
How many actual doors have any of the people pontificating here knocked on in theis area (south manchester)in say, the last 6 months.
I'll start off...bloody hundreds, in Chorlton Chorlton Park, Burnage, Didsbury,Whalley range, Fallowfield, Gorton etc etc.
it's your turn now.
If the answer from Peter H is zero can he please stop telling us what people on the doorsteps think?
John Holliker
Thursday Apr 12, 10:33
Were you a woodpecker in a former life?
This is getting ridiculous
Thursday Apr 12, 14:02
Whoever it is that keeps on going on about name a Leech achievement. I think we've all established by now that he hasn't got any. So stop asking, its getting boring.
And as for its not Labour council watch. You may have failed to notice that Leech is a councillor so it is relevant.
it's getting boring is it?
Thursday Apr 12, 15:06
What? As boring as those people who try to close discussions on boards like these as if they own them?
I hadn't failed to notice that Leech was a councillor, rather the point of the name two jobs actually. Don't know what that has to do with a Labour ouncil or the Labour Party though. It's not as if this site is awash with detailed critiques of Manchester Labour council's performance. Most if it is just whiney Lib Dem iraq/blair blah blah blah..
Dave
Thursday Apr 12, 16:09
I have summarised this site on several occassions as leech voter whine about Iraq/Blair and labour voters whine about leech not doing anything/running campaign about Christies. Nothing more, nothing less. That's the way it has been for the last two years.
I still like posting here, just to see how long the same ole, same old can be typed over and over again.
Who else thinks that is an accurate picture of this forum? lol
Jack Pott
Thursday Apr 12, 22:39
Were you a woodpecker in a former life?
peter h
Thursday Apr 12, 22:48
the problem with this forum dave is that whilst a minority of the labour supporters will try and argue a case and reply to a point, the majority of the replies are infantile blather which cannot be classed as debate, and does nothing more than make the posters look like idiots.
It's a pity, because Labour in genral and keith bradley in particular deserve better than that.
They had the biggest reversal in UK in this constuency at the last election and they seem to be in denial about it, attempt to put it down to underhand tactics or skulduggery rather than the reality of the combination of a hugely popular local councillor and a hugely unpopular government and , overwhelmingly, Iraq, and in the process make themselves look fools and undermine their chances of getting anywhere next time round.
If they really think that the best way of persuading ex-labour voters like you or I or my family and friends to return to labour is to call us a bunch of idiots, dismiss our beliefs about Iraq as "boring"(!!) and attempt to say we have misjudged JL when we've known him for years, then they're bloody fools.
Some like John Holliker and Sedgeley Park understand that, as does Chris Paul when he remembers to take his medication, but most of the rest...Sometimes I think we're witnessing black propaganda here by Lib Dem 5th columnists posing as particularly stupid labour supporters to undermine the labour cause. Because that is exactly what they do. Sadly, though, they may actually BE labour activists.
peter h
Thursday Apr 12, 22:51
woodpecker? Nah. Avon lady more like. knock knock , who's there?
who indeed....
Alan
Friday Apr 13, 10:23
This site has become extremely boring! Haven't been on for a while but looking through the postings it's the same old thing! (with some exceptions). Even I am sick of the old Christie thing and everyone (especially Peter and Dave) know exactly what I think about that!! Please can we revert back to the old days of good arguments and disagreements!!
John Holliker
Friday Apr 13, 10:50
Alan - No.
Peter/Dave - the bigger issue here, as you;ve rightly identified, are the two conflicting attitudes in the local labour camp.
There's the barrel chests who hate Leech and will scweam and scweam and scweam it until they're sick. And then there's the mob, like myself, who have some contrition, acknowledge the failings in 2005 and recognise the hatchet job done on Bradley by Leech at the expense of a few truths.
I totally accept that Leech has done little and is a toothless MP at affecting change and attracting investment. Some of his policy decisions don't stand up to scrutiny either. Where he has stolen a march is on the perception front. Seemingly hard working and all things to everyone. And with his student support he may still top the poll next time around.
My advice to the Labour Boo Boys would be to be a little more contrite, match their words with some action and shed the bullying know-it-all attitudes.
The future is Green. Vote Brian Candeland.
Dave
Friday Apr 13, 11:45
I agree with you on just about everything you said, except the last line
Come again.....
Friday Apr 13, 13:37
John
At the begining of the post you describe yourself as being in the Labour camp and at the end encourage people to vote against Labour. Are you being ironic are don't you know what you are talking about?
John Holliker
Friday Apr 13, 16:17
CA: Point proven.
It's either/or..and inevitably neither.
My point is that there are men-of-a-certain-age in the Labour Party locally who talk the talk and don't walk the walk. They have a little kabul on this forum. Their politics are based on macho b*llshit posturing at best, and verbal bullying at worst. They are beer garden politicians and buffet seekers.
By contrast, I was at the bus stop on Tuesday night when the Lib Dem contender for Chorlton was working the street...his mobile pressed to ear..and he (genuinely) came out with the following:
" None of the bastards will open the door to me."
Priceless.
I probably will be voting Green for the first time ever at the locals. I mean, the choices are great.
The scatty Labour woman who bankrolled Leech's election campaign or this year's cloned Leech-alike.
What a yawn.
Paul Ankers
Saturday Apr 14, 11:25
John,
For the record that can't have been me. We canvassed John Hacking's road & Val Stevens Rd, but not near any bus stops and I don't swear often either. But you were right, I was out and I was campaigning.
John Holliker
Saturday Apr 14, 12:22
Paul
It was you. You were with a young female 20-something and a 50 something male. I overheard everything accurately. You were engrossed with a call. You walked but a yard away from me.
Nice to know the John Leech School of Truth is working well.
peter h
Saturday Apr 14, 17:44
john thank you for stealing the best punchline for Alan. Bastard.
And the picture of a lot of teenage transvestite versions of Violet Elizabeth Bott out there canvassing for Ms Powell is priceless.
Trouble with the Green candidate is that he appears to be invisible between elections. We may be wrong, but we had considered voting for him last time round, but he didn't seem to have any day on day input into the consituency. He certainly doesn't seem to visibly bother with local green issues - take Marie Louise Gardens for instance which is currently building into a cause celebre round here. John Leech has been out there at the coal face fighting it - and winning hearts and minds in the process . Where is the Green candidate?
And why do no labour lads on here even mention it when we've mentioned it here?
It's all over the local press, it's been on local radio, there are some massive questions about Labour's integrity on it. If Labour had any sense, and if the Green guy had any sense, they'd be pinning the council to the wall and telling them in no uncertain terms to protect the local parks against developers. I can scarcely believe Labour on it personally.
That is where Lib Dems always score, whilst the Violet Elzabeths (should be interesting to see how many of them know their Eng Lit) are too busy scweaming their juvenlia ad nauseam.
Clarify please
Sunday Apr 15, 16:49
''And the picture of a lot of teenage transvestite versions of Violet Elizabeth Bott out there canvassing for Ms Powell is priceless.''
What on earth do you mean by this. It could be construed as being quite offensive.
peter h
Sunday Apr 15, 22:15
only if you don't know your english literature. get reading.
Clarify please
Sunday Apr 15, 23:55
Lib Dems resorting to personal insults, good to see.
Dave
Monday Apr 16, 09:02
peter h, Clarify please, seems to think you're a lib dem.... when did that happen?
Bonnie Langford
Monday Apr 16, 09:41
I'm backing Labour.
Alan
Monday Apr 16, 11:27
LOL, I'll leave you saddo's too it then, talking about the same old things day in and day out! I've got better things to do! Have fun!
Dave
Monday Apr 16, 11:35
Take care Alan. I just can't help myself. May be I need therapy to rid me of the curse that is johnleech.org.uk lol
peter h
Monday Apr 16, 17:29
and not a word on marie louise gardens from the violet elizabeths. I wonder why......
Sedgelypark
Monday Apr 16, 18:00
Peter, can you clarify is the boy wonder fighting for Marie louise in his role as local cllr or MP?
Just so we are clear I'm one of those who recognise we have a fight on our hands in With but remember JL is sitting on a very, very small soft majority. Plus he is useless.
Oh, and as I keep pointing out - and you keep ignoring - in council seats which Lab lost to what was probably an anti-war vote we've won them back comfortably. In my ward the Fibs are in utter panic mode bombarding us with leaflets full of the usual lies. Poor old Faraz...nice man but like Leech useless.
Now the war mights still be a big issue with the chatteratti like your good self so it's handy With selected a candidate who is openly anti-war.
peter h
Monday Apr 16, 22:19
sedgeley, you mean you don't regard the war as a big issue? You surprise me.
And does it matter which hat JL wears to fight for Marie Louise Gardens? That's not the point, as you know.
The point is that whilst you lot keep an embarrassed silence about it, JL goes out amongst the locals and fights their corner. There was a meeting tonight about it. He was there.
There are hundreds and hundreds of South Mancunians fighting this, and who do you think they'll vote for? The bloke who comes and supports them of course.
It's simple 1+1=2 stuff. I genuinely don't understand why your lot aren't doing the same. That's how JL wins hearts and minds round here for god's sake and good for him.
Not impressed
Monday Apr 16, 22:33
Right so Leech is meant to be an MP; but from what I can see is doing the job of a Cllr. Check how he voted on the absolutely vital mental health bill going throuigh parliament.
Dave
Tuesday Apr 17, 09:27
I don't know how he voted, but I hope he voted against the Mental Health bill. Yet another Labour law to be passed through via the tabloid press!
Dave
Tuesday Apr 17, 09:30
SedgelyPark, she may be anti-war, but she is with the party that loves going into battle! If she stood as an independent, then she would stand a better chance by far (she could even become an independent MP - now that would be great for Withington and for this country!)
..........is everyone here a Lib Dem??
Tuesday Apr 17, 10:27
well who isn't?? stand up and be counted.
Dave
Tuesday Apr 17, 11:03
http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=4696637
I am not a Lib Dem! Nor am I Labour! According to a Times poll, Labour have the lowest rating since 1987!!!!! Only 29% for Labour behind 37% for the Tories. (I know that won't give an accurate picture for Manchester, but should make interesting viewing on election night!)
Dave
Tuesday Apr 17, 11:05
As for your question "is everyone here a Lib Dem?" you'll find that Thomas Graham (the admin for the site) is an avid Labour supporter/member, so that is one person who is not a Lib Dem supporter
John Holliker
Tuesday Apr 17, 12:23
So (based on the regulars on this board), here's the first poll prediction for the Withington General Election.
Lib Dems 40% Labour 30%, Undecided 20%, packed-up-and-gone-home 10% (Alan).
Dave
Tuesday Apr 17, 14:03
This makes for an exciting contest, because I won't be voting in this election. Was I down for Lib Dems or Undecided.... I've packed up and moved house - similar party to Alan, but with a more "weekend socialist" manefesto!
Chris Paul
Tuesday Apr 17, 22:50
http://chrispaul-labouroflove.blogspot.com/2007/01/cllr-john-leech-mp-not-working-for.html
Richard Wednesday Apr 04, 18:02: Will you (and that clown Paul Ankers, and Leech) STOP referring to Lucy as pro-war? Ankers' leaflet on this subject was as offensive as the one before "rebutting" Labour on Christie ... with stuff from April 05 at the height of the gullibility to their hoax. Lucy spoke out against the war at the hustings. And she went in the local paper of record (marvellous paper n all) confirming her opposition.
Despite this the incredibly negative and dishonest Lib Dems stuck out a leaflet saying the opposite. People are not stupid and they know that there is little on most Lib Dem leaflets apart from the candidate's name that is not a blatant FIB.
John Leech would be crazy not to be scared of Lucy Powell and Manchester Labour. He cannot Fib his way back into parliament and anyone reading his contributions to debates KNOWS he is not competent or effective. On the Police "debate" (in Westminster Hall to half a dozen of his mates) he made a COMPLETE ARSE OF HIMSELF.
He had to apologise three times I think after insulting other MPs. He had to admit that the police budget for 07-08 balanced. And he had to also admit that something he waas moaning about had been sorted out THREE MONTHS before - but he hadn't noticed.
He should be afraid, very afraid.
Thomas: now would be a good time to out the correspondents here who write from desks in Lib Dem offices. One or two of them "I was Labour" etc are getting a bit manic. Let's see them off.
lets out the lib dem trolls...
Wednesday Apr 18, 01:32
Chris Paul is right. This undercover Lid De nonsense should stop.. Leech lied about Chrisites , leafleted cancer patients and is useless. Any one here want to argue to the contrary.
John Holliker
Wednesday Apr 18, 16:59
Chris. Your support for Labour's chosen parliamentary candidate is noted. There's nothing like being consistent with your inconsistencies.
Paul Ankers: An apology for your denial of the mobile-moment? (Sat 14th Post)
Alan - come back. your country needs you.
Dave
Thursday Apr 19, 09:16
can we start an on-line petition asking for Alan to come back to johnleech.org.uk?
John Leech is useless, but Lucy is Labour. Hardest choice anyone will have to make. Let's hope Martin Bell will stand as an idependent!
sedgelypark
Thursday Apr 19, 19:17
God the Fibs are getting really desperate in my ward...fifth leaflet so far and if Peter is right and only a very small percentage base their voting on leaflets then a waste of time.
Faraz is making much of being the local candidate but not that he is also the useless local candidate. Nice man but not bright.
Anyway, anyone of you Fibs or Fib fake Labs know if the Fibs have ever published the results of one of their 'surveys'. Cos i'd like to see the results of Coun Bhatti's latest 'survey' of one man and his dog...so come on Councillor show us the money.
Oh, and I'm dying to hear how peter and co are going to explain the Fibs and Cameroons getting together to try and run a JOINT candidate (greg Dyke) for London mayor..so it's as I always suspected that the Fibs are Tories too scared to admit it.
TimKinsella
Thursday Apr 19, 22:35
Hang on...if this is a blog to watch and scrutinise John Leech and nothing to do with looking at the Labour party then why is this thread about Lucy Powell and the Labour party selection?
Chris WRT the debate on police:
"John Leech (Manchester, Withington, Liberal Democrat) ...Perhaps if the hon. Lady had spent some time consulting her own constituents in Stockport on their opinion of recent reductions in police numbers and increases in crime, she might have thought twice before tabling such an amendment. Its self-congratulatory tone just shows how complacent Labour has become.
Ann Coffey (PPS (Rt Hon Alistair Darling, Secretary of State), Department of Trade and Industry, Stockport, Labour) I do not mind the hon. Gentleman disagreeing with me about the facts, but he is erring on the side of personal abuse and I do not think that that is acceptable.
John Leech (Manchester, Withington, Liberal Democrat)
Forgive me if I have caused offence, Mr. Amess [Chair]. My remarks were certainly not intended as personal abuse. I was merely suggesting that the hon. Lady should perhaps have consulted some of her local residents to see what they thought about cuts in police numbers and increases in crime."
I'll leave everyone else to make their own judgements.
Dave
Friday Apr 20, 09:10
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6569109.stm
Sedgelypark,the Gregg Dyke news is old hat I am afraid. Go and look at the link. It was Dyke who wanted both parties to back him!
Dave
Friday Apr 20, 14:09
The reason why we have this thread on Lucy Powell is that a) Leech does bugger all and b) Labour need all the help they can get, therefore promoting someone "who didn't support the attack on Iraq, but is happy to stand for the party that did" gives them a bit of advertising
peter h
Saturday Apr 21, 21:35
good on john leech for putting the boot in to Ann Coffey. Her pompous reply is just a way of sidestepping the issue. Typical squirming labour mp
Steve
Tuesday Apr 24, 11:41
I think Peter H is being disingenuous here - if you read the debate John Leech says "Perhaps if the hon. Lady had spent some time consulting her own constituents in Stockport on their opinion ... [it] just shows how complacent Labour has become." That is downright rude, especially since he cannot have any idea how well she is doing as an MP.
peter h
Tuesday Apr 24, 22:34
Steve, since when was being rude a valid complaint in debate? It's the truth of the comment which matters. You see John's comment as rude. I see it as hitting a nail on the head. And I see her response as being a basic ploy to avoid answering the point, which suggests it was hitting home. Give me rude truth rather than polite evasion any time
John
Thursday Apr 26, 10:13
You're having a laugh peter h. Telling someone they can't do their job, when you've got no idea whether it is true or not isn't hitting home or anything else, it is just plain rude and disrespectful.
Your boy took a hell of a beating....
Thursday Apr 26, 15:49
Check out this weeks South Manchester Reporter. Gordon Brown rips into hapless Leech who responds with "he's breeched parliamentary protocol"
check out www.southmanchesterreporter.co.uk/news/s/226/226992_im_coming_to_get_you.html
peter h
Thursday Apr 26, 22:19
I'm not having a laugh.
The Labour MP didnt answer John's point She ducked behind claims about "rudeness" instead. Classic tactics
In any case, being lectured by you lot about rudeness, having seen the witless crude heckling which some of you employed to try and shout John Leech down (probably losing Keith Bradley much needed votes in the process) at electoral meetings hardly qualifies you as valid judges of where argument ends and insult begins. Now that really WAS rudeness - towards the electorate, because you prevented the audience from getting to hear what speakers were saying.
This website oozes rudeness to John Leech and those who voted for him.
Sunita
Friday Apr 27, 08:51
"In any case, being lectured by you lot about rudeness, having seen the witless crude heckling which some of you employed to try and shout John Leech down (probably losing Keith Bradley much needed votes in the process) at electoral meetings hardly qualifies you as valid judges of where argument ends and insult begins. Now that really WAS rudeness - towards the electorate, because you prevented the audience from getting to hear what speakers were saying.
This website oozes rudeness to John Leech and those who voted for him." I couldn't agree with you more!
Dave
Friday Apr 27, 14:06
Well, the Tories have constantly been about 5-7% a head on most political trackers/voting intention polls of late. What grim reading! Things are going to go from bad to worse in government.
If Scotland become independent, I bet they will have to have strict border controls for all us disillusioned folk south of the border! lol
peter h
Friday Apr 27, 22:20
If scotland became independent, Labour would have no chance of a majority in UK parliament. do the maths
get a grip.
Saturday Apr 28, 17:52
"Shouting down John Leech". Well how rude of us. After all he had only been leafletting cancer patients in Christies scaring them witless with some shameful hoax about it closing. He will never get away from the most disgusting piece of electioneering in post war British politics.He and his apologists want it to go away. well it won't. Leech lied about Christies. There you go.
peter h
Saturday Apr 28, 20:32
Oh, I get it. Rude is OK for you, but not for others? What a wonderful sense of logic you guys have.
And he didnt lie about Christies. He told the truth as he saw it, backing, as usual, the concerns of his constituents.
And, judging by the outcome, ensuring that nobody dared touch Christies. Good for John.
You seem to forget, Mr Get a grip (funny name . Vicar got drunk and nearly dropped you in the font at the christening , did he? Got a grip at the last minute did he? pity) that Labour has a disgusting record round here shutting hospitals - seen Didsbury Point recently have you? remeber what used to be there? Seen Hazel Blear out canvassing against her own government across in Salford? Tried getting a dentist round here have you? Tried getting an emergency call-out doctor recently have you? (we have. Took 14 hours to arrive mr get a bloody grip. Oh sure, NHS in Manchester is SOOO safe in Labour hands). Get real.
get a grip
Sunday Apr 29, 02:07
Peter H- well your hysterical response certainly puts you as a priority for NHS mental health treatment I'll grant you that. Leech said Christie would close. he knew it wouldn't. I knew it wouldn't . you knew it wouldn't. The doctors knew it wouldn't. The MEN knew it ouldn't. he lied. he's a liar. Your'e a gullible persob who can't tell the difference between people genuinly trying to make things better for people and an ambitious , driven , charlatan who would stop at nothing to get his useless arse on the lucrative (biggest expenses in Grt Manchester) green benches of the House of Commons.
peter h
Sunday Apr 29, 18:59
I'm a gullible persob am I? What's that then? You were obviously educated in one of the local schools.
And, in case you didn't notice, the NHS facility for treating mental illness which WAS in Withington got closed down by your snide little friends.
It got moved to wythenshawe, making life exceedingly difficult for some of this area's most vulnerable people. Having to find your way to wythenshawe when you're in their condition is no laughing matter.
And don't put words in my mouth. I have no idea what would have happened to Christies if John Leech hadn't intervened and embarrassed the powers that be round here, but, judging from what they did to other local health facilities under their control, I have every reason to believe John Leech on it.
John fights for this constituency in a way that you lot never did. And until you learn that lesson, you will not win the seat back.
Gordon Brown's Chorlton blustering will make no difference, by the way, unless he has a brainstorm and apologizes for Iraq, which is what lost you the seat in the first place.
Judging by the way the pupils seem to have lined up military-style to be inspected by His Highness in the Reporter, he's unlikely to understand that , though. Dream on.
breathe deeply...and relax
Monday Apr 30, 01:04
Peter H - your view of the world is at odds with most other people. It's nice of you to share it with us though for our amusement.
John Leech lied about Christies. End of.. all over .. no question.. get used to it. He lied. He's a liar. There you go. Next oblique nonsensical rant please Peter.
peter h
Monday Apr 30, 08:29
Hohn Leech did not lie about Christies. He told the truth as he saw it and won a valuable victory for those that depend on Christies.
YOU get used to it.
And if most people don't share that belief, how come John won and you lost?
peter h
Monday Apr 30, 08:35
Oh, and as political debate goes, condescension doesn't work - especially when you're in the wrong, adn youre so brave you don't even put a name to your face
Greg
Monday Apr 30, 09:53
Peter,
I'm sorry but your not correct in what you say about Christies. John Leech said it would close and it didn't. he lied about it. You are wrong.
Hello!!
Monday Apr 30, 14:15
"you don't even put a name to your face " - wot unlike Peter h. Course now we know you are called Peter and that your second name is H we know all about you and you are not anonymous at all anymore. cretin
Hello!!
Monday Apr 30, 14:15
"you don't even put a name to your face " - wot unlike Peter h. Course now we know you are called Peter and that your second name is H we know all about you and you are not anonymous at all anymore. cretin
peter h
Monday Apr 30, 16:14
and of course, you're called hello!! and your comments are so intersting that you repeat them.
Greg, at least you're polite, so please quote me verbatim what John said. I get fed up of people (no disrespect to you) shouting liar but not showing the evidence.
greg
Monday Apr 30, 18:52
John Leech in his leaflet said 'Help Save Christie Hospital'. You have to assume from that ststement that it is under threat. The hospital was never under threat as both the Chair of the Strategic Health Authority made clear at the time ("claims that Chrisites are to close are stuff and nonsense), and the Manchester Evening News on several occasions subsequently.
Their was a review of cancer services which may have resulted in a chnage of role for some parts of Christie. This could have led to an expansion of it's role as subsequently was the case as much as it might have led to a diminished role.Leech chose to use the issue to imply the hospital was closing when he knew that would never happen. Him and his mates leafleted the out-patients at Chrisites and stood outside with a banner saying "Save Christies". He's a proven liar and he will pay for it electorally soon enough.
Dave
Monday Apr 30, 19:55
The reason Leech got in, wasn't down to his lies about Christies, he got in because Bradley didn't stand down from the Labour party, who's leader is the biggest liar of them all WMD anyone? Links between Bin Ladan and Saddam (other than that they have both been funded by the west in the past?)
Dave.....mmmmmmmmm
Tuesday May 01, 00:56
An interesting point of view. Wait a minute. No it isn't. It's bollocks. Please post when you have something to say that the rest of us might understand.
peter h
Tuesday May 01, 08:48
Greg, will you give us the text of the leaflet please? I've , genuinely, never seen it. Will somebody please stop telling me John Leech is a liar, and actually show me some evidence?
In the end, Dave is correct. Christies was not relevant to Labour's defeat. In electoral terms, it was a side issue. Iraq was, and remains, Labour's nemesis.
And then you really do enter into the realm of lying, big time lying, lying to take our country to war.
And before the snide little man hiding behind smartarse "names" tries to be condescending again, that was what made lifelong Labour supporters like myself and Dave walk away and vote against Labour. And that is why I personally get so bloody irritated with such snide comments. They seem to have no grasp whatsoever of the seriousness of a government lying to its electors in order to drag them into war. It's just about the most serious accusation you can make against a government and these pillocks don't seem to have the wit to grasp that simple fact. That's not party politics . It's far more important. And it is unforgivable. Do they not realise that?
Dave
Tuesday May 01, 13:05
Dave.....mmmmmmmmm (is that as in mmmmmmmmmmm tasty?!?) thanks for your response. Couldn't have said it better myself.
The best bit Peter, in my opinion, is that we had a protest me and you, and voted against Bradley, only for him to be undemocratically elected into the house of lords!!! lol
Yet one of the "new" reasons as to why we went to war in Iraq (after the fact they found no WMD or links between Sadam and Bin Ladan) was to bring to them "Western democracy" with democracy like we have in Withington, who needs elections?
peter h
Tuesday May 01, 21:04
what genuinely worries me is to see all these local labour activists in denial about Iraq, when it is that which lost them the seat and which will dominate the next election whatever they would prefer to talk about..
They're trying to belittle it, wave it away. If they had any sense, or , more accurately, any moral courage, they and their candidate would stand up and denounce it, and quite possibly win the seat back. But of course that won't happen. Pity. Time was when being a Labour supporter meant standin up for principles
Dave
Thursday May 03, 08:57
I agree Peter with the last paragraph! I am sure that had I been a Labour MP/Councillor at the 2005 election, I would of stood down from Labour and stood as an independent (if I hadn't already called for a by-election after the dicision to invade Iraq)
peter h
Thursday May 03, 22:18
they'll learn. Eventually. But they'll need a good kicking at election time
dominic h
Friday May 04, 10:29
http://www.petitiononline.com/didsbury/petition.html
Sorry, to interrupt you in full rant... but I think that this petition is worth signing for anyone who really cares about the area, and is opposed to/disgusted at the council's proposals to sell off part of Marie-Louise Gardens in Didsbury to a Property Developer.
Dave
Friday May 04, 11:29
I fully support the Lib Dems in trying to stop the council selling off Marie-Louise Gardens, but I am not going to sign the petition, as I am fed up of signing petitions and going on protest marches! Labour claim that they listen, but I think it falls on deaf ears!
peter h
Friday May 04, 17:59
So, how well did the newly re-energized Labour election machine do in South Manchester at the local elections yesterday?
Swept the board, did you?
Or just the gutter?
John Holliker
Friday May 04, 21:47
Found the election results both locally and nationally very predictable. Just a case of counting down the days until Blair announces, but given Scotland it looks like a poisoned chalice for Brown. Hung Parliament anybody?
peter h
Friday May 04, 22:06
Looks on the cards. Then we might get democracy for a change. What with thatcher and blair we've had about as much "strong" government as this country can take
Dave
Wednesday May 09, 21:25
Just noticed that Labour "lost" their seat in Chorlton (I put it in brackets as they didn't get it very democractically in the first place). And requested a new thread to raise the discussion of Leech having more Lib Dem councillor colleagues in the area!
peter h
Wednesday May 09, 22:10
seems like the wind's been knocked out of a few sails round here. Got a plan b, have you, lads? done the maths on the votes round here yet?
TimKinsella
Wednesday May 09, 23:07
For the record, the aggregate percentage lead for the Lib Dems was almost doubled.
peter h
Wednesday May 09, 23:27
that explains the silence on this website then.
Miles
Saturday May 12, 20:05
http://www.action-without-theory.blogspot.com
When Lucy is Minister for Europe in John McDonnell's cabinet you Lib Dems wont be so cocky.
John Holliker
Sunday May 13, 18:53
Ground control to Major Tom!
John Ellis
Tuesday May 22, 13:03
Interesting to see how this thread seems to have run out of steam - at least from the committed Labour end - since the election results were announced! These suggest to me that the Lib Dems - and I'm one - do have to worry about possible losses, but not so much round here. The threat is in the plush south, and perhaps in the traditionally Tory-voting shires elsewhere, though there aren't that many of those hereabouts, where the Cameron effect is impacting. Up here, where old Etonian cabals and ex-Bullingham boys tend to deter rather than impress, the Tories are for the moment out of the picture. Where Lib Dems have lost in the north, it's been over local issues like bins, or when a councillor has disgraced himself in some way, and all parties get that from time to time!
I don't think that the Lib Dems are going to be able to challenge Labour overall in Manchester for some time, because there isn't the active membership on the ground, though they will chip away here and there and make some progress. But in Withington constituency, where Old Moat remains the only safe Labour ward, that consolidation has already been achieved.
Personally, given the government's current popularity rating, I think that it will take more than a Lucy Powell to tilt the balance in Withington. There could be a national Labour revival, I suppose; maybe Gordon Brown will be able to rebuild trust, and a lot can happen before the next general election. But the biggest hill Mr Brown has to climb is his own intimate involvement - despite his "McAvities" and propensity to lofty silences! - with all that that the electorate has come to distrust over the last ten years. My instinct is that a large proportion of them feel that, at the point when they were disillusioned with a seemingly exhausted and sleaze-ridden Tory government, they were beguiled by a formidable and plausible spin machine -fronted by Blair, Mandelson et al. - into thinking that, indeed "things could only get better", only to find themselves saddled with an administration which proved to be even more mendacious and arrogant than the Tories at their worst. They felt that the government had ignored, lectured, patronised and lied to them, and that, when Iraq came, it had behaved immorally. That feeling was strongest in those constituencies, like Withington, where a high proportion of the electorate think for a living, and are less inclined than some just to react with resignation or cynicism. They had actually BELIEVED the New Labour spin, and finally, when Robin Cook's "ethical foreign policy" proved to be a sham and the Iraq tragedy unfolded, they reacted. They felt they'd been conned and despised, and they weren't going to lie down and accept it! They aren't, and never were, the sort of tribal Labour voters that the Labour Party has been able to rely on across many working class parts of Britain. Remember how short a time ago Withington was a Tory seat!
Yes, Keith Bradley was a conscientious and assiduous MP, though my sense, in the ten years up to January in which I lived in the constituency, was that he'd become a bit remote and complacent - something of an apparatchik, who took it for granted that he could be Withington's MP as long as he wanted! And John Leech had the advantage of being an ordinary local bloke with a record of service that seemed to satisfy his electors in one of the local wards. But I'm convinced that none of that was decisive: national issues were primarily what won the seat for the Lib Dems. Now that John is in and Lucy Powell is the outsider, though, I think he does have the advantage. Ms Powell looks a strong candidate and clearly has energy and talent, and her roots, and her local family links, should help her. But, until she can carve her own niche locally, she'll be the outsider. Nevertheless, none of this will be crucial at the next general election: national issues again will decide the result. And, if Gordon Brown does decide to seek an early mandate - and I'm sure he won't! - I'd be putting my money on John, if I were to break the habit of a lifetime and cross the bookie's threshhold! And I think he'd deserve the win - I've known a few MP's over the years, and he's the best I've come across. But then I have known him rather better than I've known the others.
Finally, it's great to see how this site's improved since I last looked at it in the first month or two after it was set up. Then it was full of the rantings of whingers and what another poster, I see, cruelly but accurately describes as berks - so much so that I just gave up looking at it or saying anything on it! I see there's still stuff of that nature, but now it's interspersed with really interesting and positive stuff. I'll certainly come here and look it over again.
Dave
Tuesday May 22, 14:09
Dear John Ellis,
I think you have summed up the whole Leech/Bradley/Powell issue better than all the hundreds of posts (including mine) put together. And until the Labour activists see your posting, take it on board and address it correctly, they will not get a look in at the next general election in Withington/Chorlton/Didsbury. I think nationally it will be a close call, I think the Tories will sweep away some Lib Dem MP's, like you say in the south. But I think in Manchester, Leech will stay (regardless of whether or not he is an effective MP), but because locally, people still feel very angry with the Labour party nationally!
Labour Supporter
Tuesday May 22, 16:53
I don't agree Dave about John Ellis. I'm not interested in the opinion of a Lib dem who colluded in the use of cancer patients as political footballs and leafletting cancer wards. I know all the Fib dems and their feloow travellers will groan but they are not getting away from this issue no matter how they try. Leech told an enromous and disgusting lie. He knows it. You know it and the electorate know it. John Leech isn't local. He doesn't even live in the constituency. He didn't go to a local school. He is a private school boy, MGS. Lucy lives in Old Moat Ward along with most of her family and she went to Parrs Wood School.
Grow up, get real and stop dishing our appallingly hypocritical advice. We know what went wrong in 2005. We are putting it right and we don't need your advice. If you want to dish out advice tell your boy Leech to smarten himself up and start acting like an MP and not a schoolboy with a smacked face.
Dave
Tuesday May 22, 19:56
Dear Labour Supporter
I acknowledge Leech's mistakes/lies. However, I also acknowledge that Labour made bigger lies.
You state you know what went wrong, but I don't see the Labour party apologising to its former supporters. I don't care what school Leech went to, I doubt it was his choice, but the choice of his parents. Likewise with Lucy's education. Like the vast majority of Chorlton and Didsbury residents, I doubt they were born in the area, so does that mean they are not intitled to vote? By the way, I wasn't giving you any advice!
Labour Supporter
Wednesday May 23, 09:53
I think you will find Lucy was born in the area. Its a significant number in Chorlton and Didsbury who weren't born here but by no means a vast majority. I don't recall saying anyone couldn't vote. You don't care what school Leech goes to but by implication you give the impression that no-one else should care either. Thats just arrogant. Leech tries to promote himself as a man of the people but in fact he is a public school boy who doesn't even live in his own constituency. Or for that matter live in the council ward that he represents. He is a liar who used cancer patients to get elected. He has been condemned for that lie by ordinary voters, by fellow MPs (even in his own party) and by newspapers and other commentators. He and his shocking cronies leafleted in a cancer ward in order to get his snout in the parliamentary trough. Leech wants this issue to go away. Well it's not going to. He will pay at the ballot box for his disgusting behaviour. It's not as if he's sorry or learnt his lesson. Not 12 months after this disgusting performance he was exploiting the recently bereaved in his appaling hoax about Southern Cemetery closing. it never was. He knows it. He was told so. The council knows it. They told him, yet he and his cronies continued to peddle their hoax in order to hang on to their council allowances. To go back to a point in a previous thread made by someone- can anyone give one example of anything positive that Leech has done since he was elected. Just one. Not five, not fifty, just one. He's a joke.
Dave
Wednesday May 23, 10:23
Look, we can get into a tit for tat if you want to. Keith Bradley who I quite admired as a MP sent his son to a fee paying grammar school (Manchester Grammar). He was an MP for a party that told a much bigger lie, eg WMD in Iraq, and that Saddam was supporting Bin Ladan (both hugh lies) that then went on to form the basis of going to war, and resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Compare this to Leech's lie that cost the deaths of.... er.... none! That cost the tax payer.... erm.... a few hundred quid in printing leaflets, compared to billions of pounds in Iraq.
I admit, I don't think Leech is a very good MP. But when will Labour realise that they aren't a very good government? Never, because they and their supporters have become too arrogant - hence why I stopped supporting them and turned to the only alternative (until Labour gets its act together or a decent independent turns up!)
John Ellis
Wednesday May 23, 13:56
Given that we've moved out of Withington constituency - we came to Hazel Grove (another Lib Dem haven!) in January after ten years in Didsbury - and that, as "Labour Supporter" would no doubt tell me, this is actually a Labour site for Labour people, perhaps I should keep my trap shut. Also, having commented that the quality of discussion here seemed to have improved markedly since I last looked at it in its early days in 2005, I then looked at the Angela Gallagher thread and was so depressed at the general tone of what had been said there that I posted a retraction!
Still, believing - sometimes against a the evidence! - that political debate preserves me from atrophying into a party clone, and that we actually need it if public life is going to be healthy, I'll persevere at least one more time. If I have a chorus of responses telling me where to go, I'll promise I'll slink away - though perhaps just one brief retiring raspberry blown! - and leave you all to it.
So to what "Labour Supporter" says. By the way, Dave, I think he meant that I, not you, was giving him advice that he didn't want!
1. What sort of level of debate is indicated by a feeble epithet such as "Fib Dems"? All right, I acknowledge that all sides have been at it; it's no worse than the equally feeble "BLIAR" on demonstrators' banners. Surely we can get beyond that. As to John Leech's provenance, true, he lives out of the constituency: about a quarter of a mile out! His dad was a minister in a Chorlton church while he was growing up, so he spent his formative years on the patch. He represents a ward in the constituency where the electors seem to like him, as it's the safest Lib Dem seat in the city. And as "Labour Supporter" doesn't like the idea that John Leech went to MGS, I wonder if he expressed himself with the same zeal to Keith Bradley when that worthy gentleman sent his sprogs there. This is "yah boo" stuff; again, surely we can get beyond it.
2. I was around in the campaign when the Christie issue came up - not at the heart of it, as I was working full time and long hours then, but enough to be aware of some of the discussions that went on in the Withington Lib Dem campaign team at the time. The issue wasn't conjured up by some malign manipulator in the campaign office on Barlow Moor Road, but, as you know, by a considerable number of medics, who took their concerns to the "Evening News". The test here has always seemed to me to be this. Imagine that this "Evening News" item had appeared, not just before the last general election, but before the election in 1992 when the Tories were still in power. Does "Labour Supporter" seriously suggest that Keith Bradley and the Withington Labour Party wouldn't have made a campaign issue about it? Dream on!! And they'd have been RIGHT to do so - elections are about issues, about, among other things, matters of local services and concerns. The other backdrop was the Save Withington Hospital campaign, which local Labourites supported with gusto. What happened? When Labour got into power, Withington Hospital closed! OK .. we got the community hospital, which, for its purpose, is superb. Maybe, if the Tories had got in again in '97, we wouldn't even have had that. But that wasn't what Labour promised; their commitment at the time was to save the hospital with the facilities which it then provided, and which are not available now in the much smaller community hospital. Politicians, of whatever party, don't always deliver, or do what they say they'll do. Hospitals close, and, inevitably, things are planned long before they're publicised. If, despite their campaign position, Labour hadn't saved the Withington Hospital as it was, what was to say that the Christie was safe? Would 60 medics go to the "Evening News" just on an idle whim? I always think of that song in the 70's: "Just watch out, they'll tell you owt; they must think that we know nowt ..."!
3. And sadly, Iraq proved that point to a lot of the electorate, most tellingly in Withington constituency. They do "tell you owt"; WMDs .. 45 minutes .. grave threat to national security, &c., &c. They don't even necessarily intend to lie. We'll never know, but personally I don't think Blair lied over the WMDs; my instinct is that he has the power to convince himself of anything about which he wants to convince himself. Then he speaks to his party, to the Commons and to the nation with utter conviction - and he's such a superb communicator that it actually works.
That's his talent, his tragedy and it's why, despite the very real positive achievements of this Labour government, I think he's been the most dangerous and disastrous prime minister we've had in my lifetime. Never thought, after Thatcher that I'd say that!
But, of course, sometimes he's wrong, and then all his own interior conviction, in the nature of things, can't make it right. But his own conviction of the rightness of any position that he takes up makes it impossible for him ever to acknowledge that he has been mistaken. And the calamity of Iraq is the that cost of his being wrong has been so horrendous, and the cost to him has been no more than the loss of public trust and the end of his aspiration to serve a full third term. What a tragedy! Tell that on the streets of al-Adamiyah.
I'm sure Dave's right, at least as far as the 2005 vote in Withington is concerned. I spent a couple of hours as a teller on the great day in 2005 at a couple of Didsbury polling stations. I was intrigued to see, as I went into Beaver Road School polling station, that someone had written, neatly in chalk on the pavement just near the entrance: "Please don't vote for warmongers". So polite - it could only happen in Didsbury! And when, later, I arrived at Ivy Cottage Church polling station for the same purpose, there was the same polite slogan on the pavement; someone had evidently done the rounds of the local polling stations to make a last plea to voters. And it was a plea which worked, because it reflected what an awful lot of people already thought.
4. "Labour Supporter" seems to have a playground view of politics. You're either in our gang or you're the enemy, and we'll get you after school! Tribal might be a kinder word. I guess the roots of that lie in the past - it's a cruder form of something that an old chap told me years ago: "I'll always vote Labour; it's the only party for the working man". Odd, as New Labour has worked so hard, and so successfully, to distance the party, idealogically and in terms of campaign appeal, from those roots. Don't know if you'd agree, Dave, but I think that was a right instinct, because, though class divisions of a sort certainly still exist, and in some ways have become more rigid than I felt they were when I was a hopeful teenager in the 60's, they aren't that sort of class division any more. Not many people think of themselves as working class in the old way. Hence the appeal, so successful in '97, to "middle England".
But personally, I don't want to be a party hack. I don't want to see an absurd or enfeebled Labour Party, and I don't think the sun shines out from between the buttocks of everyone who wears a yellow rosette. I think that this government's record on some things is good - the minimum wage and Northern Ireland are obvious examples. I think John Major was a fundamentally decent guy saddled with an pretty appalling party. Neil Kinnock was once my MP, and I admired him enormously; he had a disgracefully unjust treatment from the tabloids, really just because he was Welsh. John McDonnell's campaign really impressed me - pity it didn't persuade his colleagues. I was a political admirer of Robin Cook. And there's at least one former Lib Dem campaigner I knew in whom I had not an ounce of trust and confidence.
What I'm saying is that politics needs to be about issues and debate - like Tony Benn always maintains -, not about gangs, tribes and insults. I don't know he'll take this as any sort of compliment, but I could think of being in the same party as Dave, because he seems to look at things in the same way. But much of Labour in Withington reminds me of why the Labour Party has never seriously tempted me. Lib Dems seem an alternative that I have been able to go with in recent years, after years of feeling so cynical that I felt I couldn't align with any party - just because in the end it seems better to be in a party that tries to achieve things that you can go with rather than to stand outside cursing the lot of them!
Labour Supporter
Wednesday May 23, 14:19
Dear John Ellis, I appreciate your thoughtful comments. The issue about The Christie will not go away however. The so called petition that the doctors "signed" can't be produced and to imply as Leech did that the hospital was going to close when he knew it wasn't was despicable. I can assure you that to exploit cancer patients and their families fears so cynically was way outside the normal rules of politics. You are right that parties play issues to their advantage , of course they do, but this was sick.
You like everyone is of course entitled to their views, howoever your views confirm that the Liberal democrats (to be polite) are just a rag bag of disparate opinions with no ideology, policies of vision. You are welcome to camp there if you want but I prefer to stick with a party that actually believes in something.
Dave
Wednesday May 23, 20:02
I don't think Labour would ever of got back into power if they hadn't changed Clause 4. I didn't particularly agree with it (I am working class roots, but with my branches in the Middle Classes now, and my son will no doubt be middle class through and through). But for me, class isn't as important as equal life chances!
Okay, lets try and engage in debate which doesn't let the Labour camp resort back to Christies, and where the Lib Dem camp don't resort back to Iraq/WMD. Lets see if someone can convince me to use my vote on Labour. I GENUINELY believe a political candidate could get my vote be it Labour, Lib Dem or an Independent (bring on Martin Bell to Withington!)
John Ellis
Wednesday May 23, 20:07
Mmmm - a mixed bag! I offer thoughtful comments, but hold to "a ragbag of disparate opinions, with no ideology, policies or vision". Touch of incompatibility there .. or is it a case of
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer,
And, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer"!
And I'm not sure you know me well enough to guess what ideology or vision I might have!
Innocently perhaps, I've assumed that the "Evening News", as a reputable newspaper, wouldn't say that the medics had expressed concerns if the paper knew that they hadn't done so. The fact remains that the subject was opened up by the press.
As to a party "that actually believes in something", I had difficulty, in New Labour's first term, in clarifying what its ideology was, as it had clearly jettisoned a good deal of what it used to stand for, and seemed so much driven by the findings of focus groups. And when, in more recent years Mr Blair's more messianic side manifested, I didn't care for a significant part of what I heard. But, as I said, not everything's been bad.
So, yes, for the time bring, I'll camp where I am, unless that goes badly wrong, or I find something better. But the tone of this exchange leads me to suspect that a discussion between you and me will soon drift into yah boo stuff. The trouble is, there's a bit of me that quite likes it, even though in my head I know it's sterile and deplorable. Maybe I should just retire, in case we bring out the worst in each other; after all, this is a Labour site!
Dave
Thursday May 24, 09:36
To quote Lucy Powell's website "I felt Labour offered the only route to greater equality and social justice, spending much of my teens campaigning locally." I wonder if she feels this way now about Labour, 17 years after she joined the party, or does she feel the gap growing between the poorest and the richest as some form of social justice. Or that here in the UK we have more adolescents in prisons/secure centres than anywhere else in Western Society (exluding the USA) is social justice. Or that ASBO, DTTO's and Control Orders are examples of effective Social Justice. Or a party that hasn't been very vocal on a Tory backbenchers plan to exempt MP's from FOI Act as social justice?
Dave
Thursday May 24, 12:40
I forgot to mention, that Keith not only sent his son to a grammar school, but Keith himself was taught at a grammar school, and for the record, that was in Birmingham not Manchester. So, what was that you were saying about Leech going to grammar and not being local?
Labour Truth-Fib Dem Lies
Thursday May 24, 14:09
Leech went to a public school.
Dave
Thursday May 24, 14:32
yes I know he did, and good on him. You see, unlike you and the Tories, I don't care what someone did in the past too much (especially when they were children and didn't have much choice), it is what they do now and intend to do, that counts. I went to a comprehensive, but I and my parents (both of whom are still Labour supporters, and my dad has and will always be a member) wanted me to go to grammar. I sat my 11+, but they were unable to finance me to go.
I was merely pointing out that Keith went to grammar, because (and I think it was you, but you can't tell because so many people post without a decent name) made some yaaboo comment about leech not being local and that he went to grammar school. I was just pointing out the doublestanded that Labour posters on this site were making!
Semyasu
Saturday May 26, 02:44
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She was complaining about that video and now they showed her on CNN! I bet some one is not geting a best teacher award for sure! Ha ha ha!
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