Posted by Chris Paul on Monday Mar 19, 12:27
Cllr John Leech MP made the mistake last year of using taxpayers' money to fund a Parliamentary Report which was neither distributed at the end of a full year nor a parliamentary session but was distributed shortly before an election period began, featuring pictures of candidates. There were complaints at the highest level and the Manchester Evening News carried the story. Particularly that Leech had wilfully distributed it outside his own constituency for political advantage. Well, he has done it again this year. His report carries a picture of the candidate for part of Tony Lloyd's constituency on the front and again inside. It also carries pictures of at least three or four other candidates and a picture of him in Parliament near the disgraced Cluster Bomb campaigner Willie Rennie. It is time for John leech to grow up and stop cheating the rules.
+ tags coming soon
( 86 Comments )
Dave
Monday Mar 19, 21:00
"A picture of him near the disgraced cluster bomb campaigner" Well I was once pictured near the disgraced War invader Tony Blair.
Other news in the headlines, Labour intend to waste billions on pounds of tax payers money on a new version of Trident, when we have no obvious threat, and we have the NHS in crisis!
Also in the news Gordon has chance but misses!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6467063.stm
Adele
Monday Mar 19, 22:04
Erm, Trident is kind of important for our national security. When a threat emerges in 10,20, 50 years time, we cannot turn around and say. Oh sorry, it wasn't left wing to renew trident, oh dear the country is under attack and we have no way to defend ourselves.
Secondly I give a quote from GK, "It's one thing to revisit the scene of a crime. It's another to revisit the scene of a suicide". The idea of unilateral disarmament didn't work too well in 1983. It was wrong then and it is wrong now.
Also, the money is coming out of the defence budget. Money that has been set aside, so the argument that it should be spent on something else doesn't really resonate.
Finally, before I get called right wing, or whatever, I absolutely deplore the use of nuclear weapons. However, we are reducing the number of war heads. The way to go about achieveing peace is through multilateral disarmament, negociation, use of the international community and treaties. Not by just getting rid of all our nuclear weapons and leaving ourselves vunerable in comparison to other countries.
Dave
Monday Mar 19, 22:21
Hi Adele, So how come it is okay for us to arm ourselves, but not Iran? How many countries have Iran and/or North Korea bombed since World War II? How many countries between them have the USA and the UK bombed between them since WWII? Which countries are a bigger threat to world peace?
I am glad that you realise that labour are no more left wing than the tories!
Dave
Monday Mar 19, 22:23
As for the argument that the money is set aside for the defence! Huh! Give me a break, I thought the lottery money was set aside for charitable causes, but Tessa Jowell seems to think it can be spents on the "over budget already" Olympics! So if they can cook those books, surely they can move money from the MoD to the DoH
peter h
Monday Mar 19, 22:26
But theyre not "our" nuclear weapons, Adele. We just pay for them. They're USA's nuclear weapons. Because they won't work without USA's approval. As usual , we're America's poodle.
peter h
Monday Mar 19, 22:28
and I'd like to thank chris paul for cheering us all up with his Frank Gallagher thing this week. Nice one, Chris. We all agreed with you in this house.
Adele
Monday Mar 19, 23:37
Dave, I could give you a number of ways that I am more left wing than the tories on the vast majority of issues. However, when it comes to national security, you have to act in the national interests and not down party lines.
I think we can arm ourselves and not allow Iran too. Britain is a liberal democracy. Iran is run by a man that wants to wipe out the state of Israel and denies the Holocaust.
Dave
Tuesday Mar 20, 09:18
If he was that desperate to attack Israel, he would of done it by now. Don't believe the propaganda set out by Tory Balir and his boss, Dubya!
Since when was Britain a "liberal democracy" when only 27% (or their abouts) voted Labour in?
As for National Security, we should be more concerned about the young mulsim men from innercity Britain willing to blow themselves up on a crowded bus, then some state thousands of miles away! How are you going to use Trident on those young men and Bin Ladan?
Dave
Tuesday Mar 20, 16:41
Adele, you seem not to have answered my question on who do you think is the bigger threat to world peace? Bush/Blair or Iran/Korea?
Dave
Tuesday Mar 20, 16:46
The United States has been involved militarily, through the use of missiles or bombs, with 22 countries since the end of World War II.
These include: China 1945-46, 1950-53; Korea 1950-53; Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69; Indonesia 1958; Cuba 1959-61; Congo 1964; Peru 1965; Laos 1964-73; Vietnam 1961-73; Cambodia 1969-70; Lebanon 1983-84; Grenada 1983; Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s; Nicaragua 1980s; Panama 1989; Iraq 1991 to present day; Somalia 1993; Bosnia (Republic of Srpska) 1995; Sudan 1998; Yugoslavia 1999; and Afghanistan 1998, 2001-02.
And YOU say we need Trident?
peter h
Tuesday Mar 20, 21:04
And, for the record, Adele, Iran is a democracy. Their president was voted into office.
Equally for the record, Iran previously had a democracy , but Britain and USA engineered its downfall in order to bring in their own poodle - the Shah - and turn it into a Western satellite. The Shah was eventually thrown out by the people, much to the West's annoyance. I'm old enough to remember the Shah's secret police infesting the expat student population at Manchester University and scaring the crap out of them. But , hey, the Shah was pro-western.
The current Iranian government has repeatedly made overtures to the west about talks, and been repeatedly rebuffed, because USA wants to ensure the Iranians get painted as baddies.
Get real. The Middle East is in such a damned mess because USA and its mates here manipualte it constantly for its own venal purposes.
sedgelypark
Tuesday Mar 20, 23:10
Peter, sadly for you I actually played a small part in building Trident in another life as a tradesman.
I can tell you that most of Trident is fabricated and controlled by British made equipment...fact. i know you are uncomfortable with facts but there you are.
Not you seem to be labouring under the delusion that becuase some of the kit comes from the US then a British PM can't press the button. Not true...Blair can fire the existing Trident if he wishes..it's an independent system. Fact.
Your ravings on Trident remind me of the sort of shite Respect/George Galloway fanclub/SWP front come out with and look how seriously those right wing clowns are taken.
For the record I am opposed to Trident as were over 90 Labour MPs which I don't need to remind you is more than every Lib Dem MPs put together.
There is serious division in Labour over Trident which is as it should be..it's called democracy.
Peter/Dave, you have good points about Trident but if you're so arsed get yourselves up to Faslane and join the protest...but that would require you both to leave your armchairs.
Now, trident smokescreen blown away can we address Chris' pint which is Leech seems to breaking the rules yet again.
Crook or thick...that's the question!
Alan
Wednesday Mar 21, 07:42
And what's this got to do with Leech using taxpayers money for political gain. Perhaps all you fib dem lovers should get back to the point and stop avoiding it.
As for why should we arm ourselves and not Iran... I don't know if you watch much TV Dave but the country in run by soeone who wans to 'wipe Israel off the face ofthe earth'. I know, lets allow them to develop a nuclear capability...... good idea. Bush may be a numpty but but this guy takes it to the extreme!
Dave
Wednesday Mar 21, 09:08
For you information Sedgely Park, I have been on more protest than I care to remember. The last one I was on, was the biggest protest march this country has ever seen... what was the outcome... bugger all, because that march was against going to war in Iraq, and did this government listen, no!
So I get out of my arm chair!
Dave
Wednesday Mar 21, 09:10
HE wants to wipe Isreal off the map, well look what Bush wants to do for the sake of oil! The Iranian boss is all talk and no trousers, where as Bush and Blair are mad men on the loose, and it is them we should be more worried about!
John Holliker
Wednesday Mar 21, 10:34
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6319833.stm
Yes, I have every faith in labour and their ethical foreign policies (see link).
Jack Pott
Wednesday Mar 21, 17:25
Chris Paul
As ever, your arguments/point of views are always worth appraisal and occasionally have basis, but do you really really really think that the issues you raise matter more to voters than health/education/forefront policy-based issues etc?
Your entire approach constantly smacks of a personal agenda/tangents/matter-not issues. It's one thing holding Leech to account but the methods you employ (blogs, the local rag etc), the periperhal subjects you raise suggest you are a total anorak and somewhat distant from the electorate. And that, by association, reflects poorly on the Labour Party and should act as a warning to them.
Look, I'm all for respecting people's views and the right to an opinion, but sadly, the friends I talk to about local politics roll their eyes at the very mention of your name.
Sorry if this comes across as a bit rude but it's genuinely meant as constructive criticism.
And if your bite is worse than your bark, or your obsessive nature takes over, please note I am not a Lib Dem and have never voted Lib Dem.
Dave
Wednesday Mar 21, 21:36
It's almost becoming the Chris Paul Website... No one else bothers to post a new thread (or if they do, it never makes it to public viewing)
Ann Coats
Thursday Mar 22, 12:47
I find 'Noo' Labour's commitment to Trident utterly depressing, and Sedgely Park - it's cheap to claim that anyone who opposes it is pro-Respect/Galloway/SWP. I despise those headbanging idiots and am a Labour Party member of long standing.
However, I just find the claim that we never know what's going to happen in 40 or 50 years frankly ridiculous. Many of you opposed Trident in the '80s when we were in the middle of the cold war and there was a real threat, yet seem supportive of the idea now that this threat doesn't exist.
Why don't you dare to think for yourselves sometimes instead of slavishly agreeing with whatever Blair and Brown tell you to. You're as bad as the brainwashed freaks who follow the SWP.
Dave
Thursday Mar 22, 14:10
"Why don't you dare to think for yourselves sometimes instead of slavishly agreeing with whatever Blair and Brown tell you to. You're as bad as the brainwashed freaks who follow the SWP."
Quite possibly the best quote anyone has ever said in the history of this forum (sorry Alan and Pete)
Jack Pott
Thursday Mar 22, 14:39
Sorry Dave. Best quote still goes to Alan for his supreme socialism:
"Who cares about Blackpool, I'd sooner deep fry my arm and eat it that spend a day in scally paradise."
Honorary mention to Sedgeley Park:
"Do you support millions of pounds worth of investment or on a point of principle do you oppose it?"
i.e screw the morals and ethics...we're New Labour.
peter h
Thursday Mar 22, 23:10
sedgeley park
apologies for late reply. In china working.
like dave, I take exception to your swipes about armchair socialism and not getting of our arses to protest. for the record, I've been chased out of spain for anti-franco comments, arrested by the CRS in France in '68, chased by the law in manchester protesting at NF demos, ditto london anti-vietnam, and my entire family was down in london for anti-iraq demos and so on and so forth. Being 60, I really don't feel like heaving rocks any more, but I did my bit, mate.
Enough of the self righteuosness. You actually agree with us about Trident for christs sake. So bloody well admit that lib dems and you agree on at least one thing.
and alan's deep fried comment does deserve to go down in history
peter h
Thursday Mar 22, 23:25
And re Iran
What do you guys expect Iran to do?
It has a history of being colonised, exploited, manipulated and bullied by the west, so it naturally doesn't trust us; USA and Israel both make no secret of their intentions to take action against it, USA actively encourages and supports iranian insurgents in Iran; it is surrounded by hostile nuclear powers; it has a long history of animosity from the arab world (in case you aren't aware, Iranians are NOT arabs, and not sunnis, and not naturally allies to the arabs historically); it is only a few years ago they lost 100 000+ dead in a war with Iraq in which USA backed Saddam against them.
So what do you EXPECT them to do? Roll over and play dead?
And Iran is a major, wealthy, country with 60 million people. If USA can't "pacify" a poxy little nonentity like Afghanistan or a medium size, coompletely devastated country like Iraq, what can it do against a country the size of Iran?
There's only one thing it can do militarily - bomb it.
And when Iran hits back, as it will do? What then?
Nuke it.
Just like Israel wants. Just like neocons want.
Think about it before you let your little poodle boys in Downing Street lick america's backside
Dave
Friday Mar 23, 10:16
Thanks Peter, that was far better put than I could ever have said!
As for these Labour supports not being able to admit Lib Dem policy in some areas is good, it is really quite sad! I admit that Labour were excellent in their first term (and most of the seond term, hence me voting for them at both those elections) but now I genuinely struggle to support them, they haven't had a decent law or policy passed for over two or three years as far as I can remember!
peter h
Saturday Mar 24, 13:53
It's animal farm all over again. When the workers (animals) threw the farmers out, the pigs that led them slowly adopted the habits of the humans and were worse than the humans in the first place.
so, under labour, the gap between rich and poor has grown, not shrunk, we've become american neocon poodles, free university education has been abolished, the average house price has gone up nearly 200%, directors' pay has disappeared into the stratosphere. In case you clowns can't do the maths, it means that whilst you may be a bit better off in concrete terms than under conservatives, you are massively worse off relative to the rich of the country. You've been conned.
Chris Paul
Saturday Mar 24, 20:17
http://chrispaul-labouroflove.blogspot.com
Dear People
Please! If you want to natter about Trident - on which both my current MP Tony Lloyd and my would be MPs - John Leech and at least 80% of the Labour nominees at the last count - are against - then by all means post something about that as a new strand.
For the tape I am against Trident and blogged about it at anorak length.
This post and strand is supposed to be about something else. Viz the DISGRACEFUL use of taxpayers' money by John Leech MP to fight elections. This is quite simply not allowed. And he knows it so he is cocking a snooty snout at the law.
Distributing this party political material masquerading as public service OUTSIDE his patch adds insult to injury.
You may think I'm an anorak "Jack Pott" but this is hardly peripheral. This is a fundamental question of Cllr John Leech's political and campaigning integrity. He has chosen - in the full and certain knowledge that he is not allowed to do either of these things - to DO THEM. AGAIN.
It's fibbing. It's using tax money where it MUST NOT be allowed. It is breaking the STRICT PROTOCOL about campaigning and taking casework ONLY in your own area.
Just like on Christie, Southern Cemetary and many other matters Cllr John Leech MP is not showing the level of integrity and honesty we are entitled to expect from an MP of any party.
Doing it once - schoolboy error - twice - deliberately flaunting rules. The thing also shows a photo of LD party political campaigning material - also banned. It invents an area to report on that he does not represent "South Manchester" most of which is covered in three other constituencies.
He should have to pay for the whole thing from his own money. And preferably be fined and bollocked and made to give Labour and ALL other parties the same amount of money too!!
80,000 at a maximum of £100 per thousand for full colour and shiny paper. It is hardly the end of the world for him or his party to pay for their own campaign leaflets as others who respect the rules have to do.
Holding John Leech to account and praising him if he ever gets things right is what this site is for. Blair will be gone soon and there are sites out there for bishing him.
Best w
Chris P
PS The Shameless Norman story is six weeks old. Read blog not the tardy South Manchester Distorter!
Chris Paul
Saturday Mar 24, 20:23
http://chrispaul-labouroflove.blogspot.com/2007/01/i-spy-strangers-horns-of-dilemma.html
Thomas - would it be possible to remove all the off topic posts from Dave Hennigan etc on this strand. They are deliberately burying the story because it is acutely embarrassing to be caught out again cheating the taxpayer in this way.
Dave
Saturday Mar 24, 21:32
Shame on you Chris for trying to censor us. If myself or Peter caused offensive, then by all means Thomas, moderate, but I thought this site was about debating on John Leeches performance? He voted on a EDM regarding trident, which is the subject myself and Peter have discussed/debated with Alan and other Labour/Lib Dem supporters
peter h
Sunday Mar 25, 02:54
sorry if you don't like the answers, Chris. It's called free speech.
for the record, by the way, I don't disagree with your points about how mps spend their expenses. But I think you'll find they all do it, and they all basically work on the priciple that they'll interpret (ie bend) the rules to suit themselves.
In fairness to them, these rules work like that. They must include a degree of interpretation.
Concrete example. I am currently sitting in a hotel room in Shanghai, about to go to a meeting, after which I shall take my clients to a restaurant in the bund and probably spend a few hundred quid feeding them. Question - is that hospitality, normal sustenance on overseas trip, or corruption? Is it tax deductible, Is it corrupt to take them to a posh restaurant rather than a cheap one?
Answer - I regard it as honourable, honest, polite, hospitable behaviour. And I DO have to eat, and I AM 6000 miles away from home. So do they. They too are 6000 miles away from home.
You could equally quite legitimately argue that it is some form of bribery, corruption, misuse of company money, tax deductible expenses etc.
In other words there must be a degree of flexibility in these things, and trusting of judgement. I've never bribed anybody in my life, but you could argue that taking them for a meal is no different from giving them money, insofar as it it a perk for them provided by me. The food's great, by the way......
peter h
Sunday Mar 25, 02:56
and it's sunday, and it's pouring with rain, and I sell rainwear and I left my coat in bloody manchester.....embarrassing
Jack Pott
Monday Mar 26, 11:54
There you go chaps...that's the measure of Chris Paul. Disagree or oppose and he'll try to pull your comments. Only he'll gob off to his heart's content on his own blog (incidentally 8 out of 10 insomniacs recommend it).
What a total numpty. What an embarrassment to Labour.
peter h
Monday Mar 26, 15:25
well at least chris paul isn't afraid to stand up and be counted. long may he persevere - forgiving the momentary lapse above, which was funny if nothing else, and maybe meant that way
Dave
Tuesday Mar 27, 09:40
I see the governments own scientific advisers are now backtracking and agree with the Lancet on the number of deaths in Iraq linked to the illegal war! 2.5% of the Iraq population now dead. In real terms that is about 75% of the population of Manchester. I am just glad that John Leech was against the war in Iraq (I know Keith changed his mind, but we have gone over that time and time again). I wonder if Blair will ever apologise (not that an apology will take away the pain of all the families who have lost loved ones in Iraq)
Alan
Tuesday Mar 27, 17:20
Dave, get a grip you sound like an American!! When you weigh up, what is in war an inevitable loss, against the losses of human life incurred under the Ba'ath regime then, although still tragic, there is a significant difference! As for the government scientific advisors agreeing... on what basis do they agree? Where have they obtained their stats from? As for John Leech, typical Fib Dem jumping on the popularity band wagon as opposed to the one of necessity!
Dave
Tuesday Mar 27, 21:06
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6495753.stm
All you need is here Alan
while i was away
Wednesday Mar 28, 00:56
This site is full of Lib dem apologists. Your MP is supposed to be a legislator in the national parliament not some clown who puts his sooges up to shut down debate about his piss poor performance and his close to the wind tactics. for gods sake stop pretending that this man is a serious politician. he is out of his depth. i know it, he knows it and his party knows it. Talk to any MP from any party and they will tell you without hesitation that he is the weakest of the 2005 intake by a country mile. If you don't believe me or them catch his rare appearnces in parliament where he regularly gets reminded by that he really isn't up to snuff.
Dave
Wednesday Mar 28, 09:18
I take your on board you point "Whilst I Was Away", but he is merely one MP, the whole of the Labour party has become one big joke, that is more worrying (I am not a Lib Dem apologist - I am more like "disaffected Labour")
Leech Rats on Manchester!!
Thursday Mar 29, 12:30
Come on then Leech's boys. Explain why your man voted against Manchester last night in the ommons. We all knew he was a bit crap, we didn't think he was an electoral suicidee.
He voted the same way as the Tories and the House of Lords. So much for his lefty credentials. He's anti Manchester and a Tory in disguise.
Dave
Thursday Mar 29, 12:40
I think you will find that the Lib Dems do support some policies of Labour (stupidly in my opinion) such as the reform of the Home Office. Apparently, it is called democracy, sometime Lib Dem's support "Labour" sometimes they support Tories, sometimes they don't support either!
As for a super casino, I believe Labours very own Lady Kennedy was the most vocal against having "Super" casino's. With some very valid points too! So have a look at your own party, and stop worrying about the Lib Dems. I am sure you are right, I doubt Leech will last at the next hurdle/election, but then all I was bothered about when I stopped voting Labour, was to give them a bloody nose, I was pleasently suprised (as I think most of us were) that the Lib Dem's won a seat in Manchester!
Dave
Thursday Mar 29, 12:49
As the Labour peers stated on the Today programme this morning on Radio 4, super casinos around the world (Melbourne, Miami, Las Vegas, Toronto) increase organised crime, prostitution, illegal drug use, illegal tobacco and alcohol sales, etc) Does Manchester need anymore of this? As for regeneration, Lady Kennedy stated that their are better ways of increasing regeneration (but like most Labour parlimentarians, she couldn't give examples!)
Dave
Thursday Mar 29, 13:02
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6504379.stm
Also in the news today, Beckett and Labour screwed British farming and the wider tax paying Brit even more!
who cares about all that nonsense, get leech to explain himself
Thursday Mar 29, 13:40
Don't avopid the issue. Leech voted against Manchester interests. He should resign.
Dave
Thursday Mar 29, 14:07
"who cares about all that nonsense, get leech to explain himself" Crikey, that is a mouth full!
I am not avoiding the subject. The subjec that I believe you are referring to is that of the super casino, which admittedly the post immediately before yours wasn't about, but the other two were about Labour peers and the Lib Dems and the Tories voting against the plan for a casino
jk
Thursday Mar 29, 14:18
"Iran is a democracy"
Peter, you're an idiot...
jk
Thursday Mar 29, 14:21
"Iran is a democracy"
Peter, you're an idiot...
Dave
Thursday Mar 29, 14:30
That would be just in case you missed it first time Peter. JK I love the valid input there... very intelligent!
Dave
Thursday Mar 29, 14:32
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Iran
They have a higher turn out than here in the UK. Seems like they are a better democracy than here, where Dictator Blair gets in on less than a third of the vote! Nice to see proportional representation at work!
Dave
Thursday Mar 29, 14:36
Talking of democracy, lets not forget that the voting public decided they didn't want Keith Bradley as an MP anymore, so Blair gets him into the Lords instead. That's "Democracy" for you! LMAO
peter h
Thursday Mar 29, 17:42
if jk thinks I'm an idiot, perhaps he'd like to explain his reasoning. And perhaps he'd like to tell us how much he knows about the area. No doubt he's travelled it extensively and met the locals, like this idiot has. Still, what's 1st hand experience compared to government propaganda, eh?
peter h
Thursday Mar 29, 17:48
and if john leech did vote against the casino, then as far as I'm concerned he voted FOR Manchester's interests. Good for him.
Some of us have very strong moral objections to casinos, and JL is our MP too.
I've argued elsewhere that we should be having this investment without it being tied up with morally dubious strings, and Labour people above anybody else should know that. It just goes to show how far New Labour has diminished ethically that it can't grasp that basic , nonpolitical, point.
JK
Friday Mar 30, 00:30
Dave,
If you're going to start throwing around terms like 'Dictator' at Blair you are an idiot lacking even the slightest tincture of moral perspective. It is vital that this is pointed out to you.
I'm sure you don't really need me to point out to you the obvious flaw with the assertion that Iran is a democracy (i.e that the Council of Guardians can ban people from being candidates) but needless to say Blair has stated it publically on god-knows how many occasions.
"No doubt he's travelled it extensively and met the locals"
*yawn* ... presumably you've travelled to Iran and found it to be a flawless socialist paradise then? If not and if you don't have any bizarre defence to make of the Iranian government, then why engage in this laughable attempt at intellectual one-upmanship by pretending that because I've never walked the streets of Tehran, I don't have a superior understanding of that country's politics and history?
jk
Friday Mar 30, 00:31
"Some of us have very strong moral objections to casinos, and JL is our MP too"
When did John Leech or the LIBERAL Democrats become moral conservatives? I must have missed that one. I would suggest John Leech go and learn something about his party's past.
jk
Friday Mar 30, 00:34
"Some of us have very strong moral objections to casinos, and JL is our MP too"
When did John Leech or the LIBERAL Democrats become moral conservatives? I must have missed that one. I would suggest John Leech go and learn something about his party's past.
jk
Friday Mar 30, 00:36
Dave,
I told these people that since there is democracy in Iran that they might aswell wind their organisation up. Needless to say, they were delighted at the apparent and lengthy misunderstanding on their part.
http://www.iran.org/
Dave
Friday Mar 30, 12:43
Out of interest, does anyone know (and can you provide a source) of the outcomes of the general election locally and nationally, had it been down to proportional representation?
Leech should resign
Friday Mar 30, 13:47
Blah blah blah... gambling debtae. Lets cut to the quick. Leech voted against manchester being given the opportunity of creating 2700 jobs. He did not vote in favour of an alternative way to create the jobs. The choice to be fair wasn't on offer. Just - Manchester Jobs or No Manchester jobs. he voted for no Manchester Jobs.
Also when did he decide he wasn't a Liberal anymore and started being in favour of banning things. Is John leech against gambling. If so can one of his Lib Dem drones let us know.
Dave
Friday Mar 30, 14:44
I am not sure if Leech is against gambling. However, I think he and many others including people from the Tories and people from "LABOUR" voted against the idea of a "super casino" due to the reasons I listed when paraphrasing Lady Kennedy's views (she is a Labour Peer in case you didn't know)!
Dave
Friday Mar 30, 14:54
I found my answer on wikipedia
"From this perspective, 2005 could be considered a wasted opportunity for the Liberal Democrats, although many commentators point to the unfairness of the first-past-the-post electoral system that sees the party get about one-quarter of the total votes but only one-tenth of the parliamentary seats" I love this "Democracy" of Blairs'!
peter h
Friday Mar 30, 15:48
If whoever the supercilious berk calling himself JK could just stop for 5 minutes from shouting "idiot" at those who disagree with him and just cast an eye at today's Guardian - http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,2046135,00.html - he'll see exactly why Iran is playing cat and mouse with British Service personnel, learn the utterly disgraceful history of Britain vis-a-vis Iran, and, possibly, change his mind a little.
But I doubt it. Infantile insults rarely presage meaningful thought.
peter h
Friday Mar 30, 15:52
Mr "Leech Should Resign" - since the gambling part of the development only represents 7% of the floor space, why doesn't your nice clever council search the means to rescue the other 93%? If it's properly done, it doesn't need a bloody casino in the 1st place. The idea that we can only have those facilities if we allow gambling is a ludicrous argument and just plain wrong
Sedgelypark
Friday Mar 30, 22:30
Shock Horror....I've been off the site for a while and Peter and Dave are as usual obscuring the real issues with their Iran flannel.
Anyway, taking Two Jobs watch to its logical conclusion I've started stalking the Boy Wonder.
Not really, I just happended to be a train to London when who should come into my carriage - with his two very badly dressed minders - but the boy wonder himself.
Our lame duck MP started spitting the dummy out shouting to his 'assistant' that they should be in coach A and storming off leaving her standing there looking sheepish.
I thought it was odd as coach A on that train is the quiet coach so our busy man of the people couldn't take calls in there.
Anyway, taking my stalking duites seriously I wandered into coach A to see if boy wonder was asleep but no sign. I hoped he hadn't thrown himself out of the carriage in his rage at his sad assistants.
So I popped up to the buffet for an overpriced sandwich and who should I spot but Leech sat on his own near the buffet with his head in his hands. He'd probably just worked out his payoff when he loses his seat.
A couple of things to note:
- Leech is the most expensive MP yet travels second class.
- judging by their tatty appearance his assistants need an urgent pay rise
- JL, that cheap Fib Dem chunky jumper might look ok on a dweeb like Andrew Stunell but makes you sad and very middle aged.
This was a gift and the whole air of the three of them reeks of amateur hour politics. Pathetic.
sedgelypark
Friday Mar 30, 22:39
Peter, two things.
I heard JL on Channel M trying to justify his betrayal of Manchester by voting against the casino. His defence was that we shouldn't site a casino in a 'residential area'. Does he mean the casino at Eastlands that will be built on waste land nowhere near houses? Peter, please explain.
Leech also justified his bad judgement by saying 'my vote didn't matter a jot as the Lords voted it down.' Hardly a principled stand then.
Peter, my second question is your pathetic attempt to say that we still get a casino style regeneration package if the mad Lords decision is upheld.
You seem to think that the counciul can easily find the millions that would be pumped in from the casino from another source. Can you expalin where MCC might get those millions lost if the casino isn't built without a Fib Dem style massive council tax hike?
Your view is very naive.
Dave, the answer is under PR then we would have the same mess they have in Scotland where parties with mothing in common try to cobble coalitions that just donlt work. Plus the Fibs do what they want anyway as always.
jk
Saturday Mar 31, 13:43
Peter,
I thought I was contesting the LAUGHABLE idea that Iran is a legitemate democracy but, sure enough, it appears i was defending entirely Britain's historical interaction with Iran. How silly of me.
Have you any other views you'd like to attribute to me?
jk
Saturday Mar 31, 13:47
Additioally, perhaps you'd like to try to explain to me why, irrespective of any historical grievances Iran may feel towards the UK, that gives them the right to interfere in the vital work of a United Nations deployment?
jk
Saturday Mar 31, 13:49
Peter and Dave,
Is Zimbabwe a democracy?
cheers,
Dave
Saturday Mar 31, 20:02
JK, I am under the impression that Zimbabwe is under the rule of a dictator? I could be wrong
jk
Sunday Apr 01, 13:33
Dave,
I think you'll find they hold elections, much like Iran. So, your answer?
peter h
Sunday Apr 01, 18:26
nothing pathetic about the suggestion sedgeley. Not my fault if you don't like the logic. As I've said before, and you guys have poohooed before - no doubt you're all much more experiences at running capitalist companies than me since I've only been an MD since 1978 - all the facilities which the casino will bring could be provided by private sector leisure companies if the council was minded to do that. The world is full of leisure companies which do exactly that and would undoubtedly love to discuss it with the council. It is one of THE growth markets of the early 21st century.
peter h
Sunday Apr 01, 18:32
jk - I'm not pretending Iran is a nice clean country. Point is that Iran has every right to fear and distrust Britain's motives. THey have no reason whatsoever to trust us.
peter h
Sunday Apr 01, 18:34
sedgeley, are you really so down on your luck that you have to complain about the dress sense of John Leech's staff?
And don't you think it a GOOD thing he was in second class? MPs usually travel 1st class and avoid the plebs theyre supposed to represent.
jk
Monday Apr 02, 07:16
changing the subject peter? your claim was that iran is a democracy and then dave claimed it was a better democracy than ours. do you withdraw that remark?
Dave
Monday Apr 02, 09:05
JK, I never claimed that Iran's Democracy was any better than ours. I just made a point of Iran having a democracy, and a point that ours isn't very good. I think the Swiss have a better democracy than anywhere else, but other than that country, I wouldn't like to compare too much from one country to another!
JK
Monday Apr 02, 13:10
Dave,
You said
"Seems like they are a better democracy than here"
and now you say
" never claimed that Iran's Democracy was any better than ours"
There is a word for this....
Dave
Monday Apr 02, 13:22
Okay, you're right (I do hold up my hand when I make mistakes, unlike Blair!)
The point I was making is that our democracy isn't a beacon like Blair and Bush make out like it is. I often think how unfortunate, that Blair and Bush want to place "our democracy" on Iraq. I hope the Iraqi's, if they ever get peace, decide on the Swiss style of democracy.
jk
Monday Apr 02, 14:53
For all its faults, our democracy is better than theirs...
Dave
Monday Apr 02, 15:30
Our democracy is better than who? The Swiss or the Iranians or the Iraqi's?
Dave
Monday Apr 02, 15:51
I know it is better than the USA
jk
Monday Apr 02, 16:21
Dave,
The Iranians. Why are you being wilfully obtuse?
Dave
Monday Apr 02, 16:24
Because my last comment before your question, I had been talking about the Swiss, therefore I was confused, as I doubt anyone would disagree that the Swiss have the best democracy in the world (not saying it is perfect)
However, of course I would agree with you that the British Democracy is better than the Iranian, however, doesn't mean to say it is anywhere near as good as it should be (not when you consider the government of the UK was elected with just 20odd% of the vote - meaning one fifth of the adult population didn't want Labour to be it's governing party!)
Dave
Tuesday Apr 03, 16:46
I meant four fifths didn't want Labour and only one fifth did!
peter h
Tuesday Apr 03, 17:18
JK why don't you accept that maybe the Iranians have a point vis a vis UK? With our history out there , would YOU trust us being on your doorstep again?
JK
Wednesday Apr 04, 22:10
Peter, this is ridiculous. We're on their doorstep in a vain attempt at protecting a fledgling democracy - only a lunatic would stick up for a country that is hellbent on discrediting and destroying it. Your moral vacuousness, and the thought that it might be widespread, terrifies me.
JK
Wednesday Apr 04, 22:12
Dave, there is a reasonable case to be made for PR but you discredit yourself by pretending that it's a scandal that Labour are the governing party. Can you name any parties which received a great number of votes?
JK
Wednesday Apr 04, 22:17
Dave, there is a reasonable case to be made for PR but you discredit yourself by pretending that it's a scandal that Labour are the governing party. Can you name any parties which received a great number of votes?
Dave
Thursday Apr 05, 08:46
JK, yeah you're right
kesa
Wednesday Apr 11, 15:20
Believe it or not Sedgelypark John doesn't have a following of assistants when he goes to London, I know this will also go against the grain but why not try getting your facts right before you start spouting off about people you know nothing about!
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