Posted by Suzanne on Friday Oct 27, 11:26
The Manchester Evening News has reported today that John Leech MP has the largest expenses claim of all the Greater Manchester MPs.
An expenses bill bigger even than the Prime Minister's! However Mr Leech tries to spin this one the ordinary people of Withington are going to find that particular bill hard to swallow.
Especially since Mr Leech, now commonly known as "Two Jobs John", has also been claiming £15,000 a year for his role as Cllr for Chorlton Park.
http://ontheknocker.blogspot.com/2006/10/leech-149000-prime-minister-8700.html
+ tags coming soon
( 87 Comments )
peter h
Saturday Oct 28, 16:55
maybe he spends more on doing his job. expenses mean nothing. It's what you do with them that counts
Alan
Saturday Oct 28, 19:35
Absolutely, so what exactly is it that John has done with all his expenses?? He's treading water, he's out of his depth, he's a poor MP and has done very little for the constituency since he took office. He's either a councillor or an MP, to still be both is greedy and unrealistic. I'm looking forward to the new Labour PPC being announced becuase when they are I'll be back there campaigning whether I live in thte constituency or not. John's days as MP are numbered so he should enjoy his lavish expenses while he can!!!
Mike
Saturday Oct 28, 19:48
Alan, your hatred of Mr Leech does you no credit. Where's your evidence for any of your bile about the MP? What exactly would Mr Bradley if re-elected have done that the new MP hasn't???
At least Mr Leech has a Constituency office that members of the public can walk into; in neighbouring Gorton Sir Gerald Kaufman MP spent around £126,000 - around £22,000 less than John Leech - and he doesn't even have an office! But he does have a burly man called Brian to drive him around - great use of taxpayers' money there!
peter h
Sunday Oct 29, 05:45
like I said alan, the expenses total is meaningless until you see it itemized.
so your answer is pointless. As mike says, it's just bile, and does you no credit.
and if john stands so little chance of hanging on to his seat, how come keith bradley legged it at the first opportunity, instead of sticking around to fight to win it back? doesn't add up, mate. No doubt keith was bright enough to realise that labour will get hammered at the next election and took the option where minor details like having to win a democratic contest don't come into the equation.
Suzanne
Monday Oct 30, 10:49
http://ontheknocker.blogspot.com/
From what I can see of Mr Leech's activity as an MP is that everything he does has a campaigning element to it. If he can't put out a press release and generate some negative publicity against the Labour Party then he isn't interested. He also never lets the facts get in the way of a good story. Such as Christies and most recently the police cuts. Keith Bradley on the other hand was a solid constituency MP who worked hard for his constituents and didn't allow political point scoring to dominate his work. He still continues to work hard for Withington and its people in his new role as Lord Bradley of Withington.
peter h
Monday Oct 30, 12:23
Odd. We have exactly the opposite experience. When we needed help from john leech we got it. When we needed help from Keith Bradley, we didn't. Which was the initial reason we switched votes from KB to JL. It was not based on ideology but direct experience.
The ideology came later over Iraq and a few other things, which, in fairness to him, werent KB's fault. It was just his hard luck to be in the wrong place at the wrong time
As for campaigning opportunities, they all do it. KB was for ever in the local press for some vacuous reason which was in reality just an excuse to get his face in front of voters. So does JL. So does every MP and prospective MP in ther country in a contestable seat. Goes with the job.
John Holliker
Tuesday Oct 31, 08:24
Leech's expenses claim makes interesting reading especially when you consider his staffing costs and office allowance...didn't it take him until August to get off his arse and open an office!?!
Alan
Tuesday Oct 31, 10:06
Are we not all forgetting that Keith had an open office??
Val
Tuesday Oct 31, 10:41
Has anyone considered that if you are a new MP you have to buy everything from scratch to equip your office? you would expect new MPs to have higher start-up costs.
peter h
Thursday Nov 02, 13:22
the average expense claim by MPs is £130 000 per year.
JL's appear to be about 14% higher than average.
As a percentage, that is no big deal, but it is certainly worth asking for an explanation. It may simply be that he is doing his job assiduously. Or he may not be very good with money. It's highly unlikely to be anything sinister.
It is perfectly logical that Tony Blair's expenses as an MP will be less because he spends most of his time on ministerial duties, sending british soldiers off to die meaninglessly and so forth.
Alan
Friday Nov 03, 08:59
Which is one of the difficult decisions all Prime Ministers may be faced with Peter, something you've never had to do or ever will have to do. You may have gone all round the world Peter but it just seems to me that you're back viewing things in your armchair again!!!
peter h
Friday Nov 03, 14:07
but he didnt do it like a prime minister in this country should do, did he? He made the decision himself, lied about the reasons for doing it and bullied his colleagues into agreeing to it.
That, Alan , was disgraceful and the consequences for this country have been appalling.
Rachel
Friday Nov 03, 17:06
According to the register of members interests, John also passes on his expenses as a councillor to his constituency office. Are these taken into account in these published expenses? If not, he's spending even more money (our council tax) on things that may (I say MAY, before you jump down my throat and start knocking me a s a leech hater) include these blasted smarmy leaflets. (I'm not a fan of these from any party - a waste of trees in my opinion). Where are his council expenses going? If they can't be directly traced to expenditure that goes towards helping serve his constituents I'd like to know why. If they are tracable, and not accounted for in these figures, then he's spending even more money than that stated.
Thomas
Saturday Nov 04, 07:57
His councillor's expenses are *NOT* included. These figures are only his parliamentary expenses. His council expenses are passed to his constituency office, so they could be spent on anything from rent to staff handling constituents problems to printing leaflets.
peter h
Saturday Nov 04, 08:51
This isn't getting anywhere, because nobody seems to know how the expenses add up, and how it compares to other MPs' costs. We only know that it is mildly above average, which in itself is no cause for concern. There will certainly be MPs in all parties with much higher, and much lower , costs.
I assume the details are publicly available?
Suzanne
Saturday Nov 04, 13:43
If his expenses were due to him setting up a new office why dont the other new LD MPs have similar expense levels?
Thomas
Monday Nov 06, 13:56
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/john_leech/manchester%2C_withington
Additional Costs Allowance: £21,437
London Supplement: £0
Incidental Expenses Provision: £25,23
Staffing Allowance: £77,239
Members' Travel: £13,524
Members' Staff Travel: £610
Centrally Purchased Stationery: £2,529
Stationery: Associated Postage Costs: £7,747
Centrally Provided Computer Equipment: £930
Other Costs: £0
Total: £149,253
peter h
Monday Nov 06, 16:28
and how does that compare to others, Thomas? Is there any particular category that is massively higher than average? How does that compare say to Gerlad Kaufman or to any other local MP?
John Holliker
Monday Nov 06, 17:17
A material point here is how can he charge so much when it took him so long to establish a constituency office that's only been open for 8 months.
And by staying on as a cllr, he's got two pots of money and depriving people in Chorlton Park of another representative.
Thomas
Monday Nov 06, 20:22
http://www.theyworkforyou.com
Peter, spend a bit of time taking a look at www.theyworkforyou.com... it has lots of useful information about your elected (and unelected) representatives. They will even send you email alerts when people speak in parliament etc.
About 5 minutes on the site gave me the following information...
| Type | Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) | Kaufman (Gorton) | Leech (Withington) | Lloyd (Central) | Stringer (Blackley) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Additional Costs Allowance | £21,473 | £21,634 | £21,437 | £18,741 | £17,392 |
| London Supplement | £0 | £0 | £0 | £0 | £0 |
| Incidental Expenses Provision | £21,134 | £14,337 | £25,237 | £26,011 | £18,866 |
| Staffing Allowance | £70,388 | £64,333 | £77,239 | £75,582 | £66,670 |
| Members' Travel | £11,585 | £16,003 | £13,524 | £10,515 | £13,963 |
| Members' Staff Travel | £1,707 | £0 | £610 | £100 | £576 |
| Centrally Purchased Stationery | £770 | £1,093 | £2,529 | £1,116 | £444 |
| Stationery: Associated Postage Costs | £2,345 | £3,575 | £7,747 | £2,199 | £605 |
| Centrally Provided Computer Equipment | £1,517 | £289 | £930 | £581 | £382 |
| Other Costs | £0 | £5,678 | £0 | £0 | £0 |
| Total | £130,919 | £126,942 | £149,253 | £134,845 | £118,898 |
Hope thats useful.
John One Job
Tuesday Nov 07, 10:04
If as "two jobs" claims his expenses are due to his setting up a new office and sending so many "letters" (not leaflets honest guv!) to his constituents how come new MP Paul Rowan (Lib Dem (Rochdale) and new MP Mark Hunter (Lib Dem Cheadle claimed £55000 less than "two jobs" thats before we throw in the £15000 council allowance. Just some facts for your Lib Dem spin doctor posters to ponder.
peter h
Tuesday Nov 07, 23:03
those figures show that there is no single category where you could accuse john of untoward expense. You could possibly , if you measured it in percentages, point to stationery and associated postages, but as a concrete figure it is insignificant.
I've spent my life handling expenses and reading expense accounts, including having to fire 2 senior managers for fiddling them, and I have to say that these look unexceptional. I've met very few people who don't fiddle expenses to some degree, and regard it as a perk for the job, so I suppose politicians will do the same, and they probably all stretch points here and there. Human nature.
And , in answer to John One Job, it is quite possible that those who spend £55000 less arent doing their job properly. If the average expense is £130 000 and they only spend £95000, it sounds like they could be slacking
Rachel
Wednesday Nov 08, 11:09
Fair dos.
I'd still like to know where his council expenses go then - surely they are there for the private use of the councillor due to the time spent on council duty/work/travel etc (hence the name 'expenses'), or am I missing the point here? If he doesn't need them maybe he should return them, or at least list them as a donation to the Lib Dems which is what they really seem to be. If he does pass them on to his constituency office I'd like to know how they are spent.
I would write to my MP to get some answers but last time I did that it took over four months for him (more likely a minion) to reply. But I suppse thats OK as he's representing the people twice, so he must be a bit presed for time.
Alan
Wednesday Nov 08, 13:42
Peter, for God's sake just admit it... he should give up his Councillor seat. This is beyond a joke now and there can be no comparison to Keith Bradley as he gave his up after a year. It's now a year and 6 monts now and he's still doing both and still claiming the money for both. How can he be an effective MP and Cllr!!??
John Holliker
Thursday Nov 09, 09:30
Peter - you are the oracle.
You really are.
Josh
Friday Nov 10, 17:39
Unless John Leech is sending pointless, expensive letters to nobody then it appears that he has sent approximately twice as many letters (to or on behalf of constituents) than any other MP in Manchester including ten times as many as Graham Stringer.
Josh
Friday Nov 10, 17:39
Unless John Leech is sending pointless, expensive letters to nobody then it appears that he has sent approximately twice as many letters (to or on behalf of constituents) than any other MP in Manchester including ten times as many as Graham Stringer.
peter h
Friday Nov 10, 22:36
yes alan, I agree. He ought to give up his council seat now he is an MP. Theyre separate functions and one man can't really do both.
Having said that, you could equally argue that one man can't be a proper constituency MP and a government minister. The same logic about the impossibility of doing 2 jobs 100% effectively.
And Rachel's comments about his council expenses seem fair to me, even though they arent strictly logical either.
I assume Josh sent his message twice to demonstrate his point! Nice one. Thing is , Josh, what are you accusing John Leech of? Too MUCH correspondence with his constituents? How do you know theyre pointless and expensive? Have you read them? Rachel seems to think he never writes to anyone! You can't both be right.
I'm sure both he and graham stringer excercise their judgement on whom to write what to how often. I have a lot of respect for both men.
Alan
Saturday Nov 11, 23:36
What do we all think to Hillary Clinton as the next President of the United States??
peter h
Sunday Nov 12, 23:18
pass the cigars
Alan
Tuesday Nov 14, 09:12
and pour the brandies!
Alan
Tuesday Nov 14, 14:10
http://tinyurl.com/yaxhft
We truly do live in a world that has gone quite mad!
peter h
Wednesday Nov 15, 16:27
Oh and incidentally, I see (a) interest rates are rising, which should cheer mortgasge holders no end (b) there is now a record level of personal bankruptcy (c) unemployemtn has now reached 1.7 million.
That might matter a bit more to ordinary people than john leech's expense account, don't you think?
Alan
Wednesday Nov 15, 17:32
Unemployment has now reached 1.7 million.. where are you getting your stats from (incidentally this figure is clearly better than the 3 million plus level under the Tories!!) Furthermore, if there is a higher level of peresonal bankruptcy then perhaps people should stop taking out loans they can't afford and buying things they don't need on credit cards!!
peter h
Wednesday Nov 15, 23:19
the stats were in the papers today and on radio 4 news. Government figures presumably.
bankruptcies will continue to rise because this government has allowed banks to run out of control and over-lend, pushing up, specifically, house prices to a point where increases in interest rates will force people into increasing debts to pay their mortgages.
there's no point in blaming people for borrowing too much when you create an environment which encourages them to do so.
we have BY FAR the highest personal indebtedness in Europe in excess of £1 trillion, something like double the European average, if I remember correctly, all achieved under a labour government. congratulations.
And try explaining it to the electorate when you go to the polls next. labour keeps talking up gordon brown's supposedly sound economic management. it's under his tutelage that this potential crisis has taken shape.
John
Tuesday Nov 21, 13:23
Peter H... and the Lib Dems would do....what??
Opposition is so easy. We tried it for 18 years. Governemtn is better but harder. Just thought I'd let you know as you are unlikely to find out for yourselves. And Peter H...are you suggesting that Mr Leech hides his expenses disgrace behind a flurry of Government statistics. Whats this then Lib Dem media management. Have your tried the line ..." good day to bury bad news"
peter h
Tuesday Nov 21, 17:22
Actually, John, what I would really love to see is a proper labour government, one which was not acting like margaret thatcher and george bush's bastard offspring (and I know that is unfair on some of their achievements). I've always been a labour supporter till the last 5 years, and will revert to that when the blair legacy finally gets flushed down the toilet it belongs in.
Far be it from me to remind you of the origins of the phrase "a good day to bury bad news". I'm sure you remember only too well
And what is your evidence of "disgrace" in John Leech's expenses? I've seen none. THe guy has spent above average money. I assume it is because of above average costs, spent on doing his job. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
John Holliker
Wednesday Nov 22, 09:12
ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz
John
Wednesday Nov 22, 14:29
Peter h - What I do remember is that people like you dreaming of a pure "proper" labour government is at least in part what kept us in opposition for 18 years.
John Leech claimed that his expenses are high becasue he is a new MP. Perhaps he can explain why two of his Lid Dem colleagues (also new MP's Paul Rowan and Mark Hunter from Rochdale and Cheadle) managed to spend more than £55000 less than Mr leech and that is before we add in his £15000 council allowance. as to whether there is "evidence to the contrary" we will presumably just have to wait and see.
Alan
Wednesday Nov 22, 16:17
Surely his enormous budget, at the taxpayers expense, would be warranted if he actually did anything.
peter h
Wednesday Nov 22, 18:02
sorry john, but bollocks.
People like me put labour into power by voting for them for 30 years.
and people like me will turf them out by voting against them because of the way they have betrayed their own principles subsequently. You know the list.
and "proper" does not mean incompetent. Nor does it mean head-in-the clouds stuff.
As for John Leech, he may well have overspent and he may not. My point is that neither you nor I have sufficient evidence to know if he has or has not. You choose to assume that he must have overspent because you are willing him to fail. I choose to accept his assurances because I trust him.
But neither of us is in a position to actually know.
Labour Watch
Thursday Nov 23, 12:47
Let's look at some facts for a change. These are Paul Rowen's expenses - fairly similar to John's, but less on postage. Also bear in mind that the Lib Dems have had an office in Rochdale for years. Mark Hunter was a new MP, but took over from a Lib Dem, part way through the year in an established office. Why don't you compare John Leech's expenses with those of "AIR MILES ERIC" Joyce, Labour MP, and top spender.
Paul Rowen
Additional Costs Allowance £21,582
London Supplement £0
Incidental Expenses Provision £27,924
Staffing Allowance £75,053
Members' Travel £14,863
Members' Staff Travel £693
Centrally Purchased Stationery £1,483
Stationery: Associated Postage Costs £4,609
Centrally Provided Computer Equipment £1,036
Other Costs £0
Total £147,243
Why don't all you Labour cry babies complain about Andrew Gywnne, MP for Denton & Reddish, who is also a Councillor (and up for election in 2008 like John Leech)? Isn't it rather odd that Cllr Val Stevens should claim that it's against Labour Party policy to remain a Cllr (when she is sniping at John Leech), while Mr Gwynne MP is one. Is Val telling porkies?
Why is it, that nobody has anything to say about Gerald Kaufman paying a member of staff to be his chauffeur? Is that a good use of public money? Perhaps he could try having an office for his constituents to see him in? Does anyone know where Graham Stringer's office is? Or Tony Lloyd's for that matter? Or Paul Goggins? Are they open to the public 5 days a week from 10-4?
Oh, and as for the delightful Suzanne, perhaps you could enlighten us how much your boss spent last year (Arlene McCarthy MEP, for those who don't know). Does Arlene pay the minimum wage to keep down the expenses, or does she pay a proper salary for a proper job?
John
Thursday Nov 23, 13:52
dear me. More Lib Dem spin.
Fact - John Leech claimed the highest expenses in Greater Manchester.
Fact - John Leech also gets an additional £15000 from his council allowance.
Why do you always deflect the argument when your man is asked to be accountable.
And as for trusting him. Well that went out of the window surely when he and his colleagues started using cancer patients as a political football. John Leech deliberatley misled over the issue of Christie hospital. You might have forgotten but I haven't and I like many hundreds and thousands of other people never will. He lied, he knows it and he has shown no shame.
Steve from Didsbury
Thursday Nov 23, 14:56
What a childish attack on "the delightful Suzanne" whoever she is. Very inclusive Mr/Mrs Labour Watch. Its always nice to have in references and closed jokes on a dicsussion group. Encourages participation..not!
None of the others pay the minimum wages either and they are not claiming as many expenses as John Leech. Bit of a pathetic argument. Do you get out much?
Steve from Didsbury
Thursday Nov 23, 14:56
What a childish attack on "the delightful Suzanne" whoever she is. Very inclusive Mr/Mrs Labour Watch. Its always nice to have in references and closed jokes on a dicsussion group. Encourages participation..not!
None of the others pay the minimum wages either and they are not claiming as many expenses as John Leech. Bit of a pathetic argument. Do you get out much?
peter h
Thursday Nov 23, 17:22
lot of heat and not much light here. I doubt if any MP from any party in Greater Manchester fiddles their expenses, and I'm certain all of them will also spend money in ways their opponents will dislike. It really isnt worth all this hot air.
And John, JL insists he told the truth over Christies and the doctors there backed him. And given labour's history on NHS recently, I believe him 100%.
peter h
Friday Nov 24, 16:57
perhaps we should use the words "costs" rather than expenses.
peter h
Friday Nov 24, 23:06
talking of which, I see labour party demands 3% of all councillors costs for labour party funds. Creaming £2 million a year . Apparently against the sode of practice. Makes your whinging about john leech's £15k look a bit lame
John Holliker
Monday Nov 27, 09:34
http://tinyurl.com/y4erce
Some sore nerves out there!
I read this week that the Lib Dems have been censured for using cash claimed through MP's expenditure to prop up their political campaigns. I'll post the source on here in a wee while.
So that's public money to pay for their bogus claims and propaganda...not that I'm alledging John Leech is using his inflated double-salary to do this. I am sure he has the utmost integrity and wouldn't think twice of exceeding legal limits for campaign expenditute or manipulate his accounting accordingly.
Righto, I'm off to read Pinnochio.
Nobody is saying any political party is cleaner than clean, white than white (ahem)... but the Lib Dems taking a moral high ground, well, that's just rank hypocrisy.
I mean, they're so duplicit and odoious they're evn prepared to consider a coalition with the BNP in Halifax (see link_)
John Holliker
Monday Nov 27, 09:47
http://tinyurl.com/yhr4up
See link -how the Lib Dems really spend their civic allowances!
A huge surprise I'm sure.
Ok peter, let;'s have your best impression of a toothless Rottweiler
peter h
Monday Nov 27, 17:34
double salary? what double salary?
like you said, none of them is whiter than white.
I have nearly 40 years experience of expenses living, including firing 2 managers for fiddling them, and the sad fact is that most people I ever meet regard expenses as fair game and seem to have a moral blackout when it comes to expenses. I really hate that attitude, but it seems to be human nature. Since most MPs are human or nearly human, I assume the majority of MPs have the same attitude.
I only ever met Gerald Kaufman once , for instance. He was on the train to london. 1st class. No doubt he had not paid for his ticket. No doubt we had. So how come he gets to travel 1st class and his constituents don't?
I have no doubt equally that lib dems do the same.
A pox on all their houses, john.
(And I travel 1st class and business class - and buy my own bloody tickets before you ask)
Alan
Monday Nov 27, 18:13
Expenses is the easiest thing in the world to fiddle and I can put hand on heart and say that I never have; that may be though my own moral ethics or it may be that I am truly of the belief that 'you always get caught'; as your two ex managers can probably verify Peter. Presumably, and I don't know if this is the case, but MP's must have to keep all receipts and have a full audit of their expenses on a yearly basis.. I don't mean an overview, I mean a detailed analysis. I know for example, I could add 5 trips to London on my expenses form and no one would ever question it. I would imagine that FTSE100 companies, being so big, cannot spare the time and resource to do so effectively. Surely, an MP's office wouldn't have the same difficulty?
Alan
Monday Nov 27, 18:13
Expenses is the easiest thing in the world to fiddle and I can put hand on heart and say that I never have; that may be though my own moral ethics or it may be that I am truly of the belief that 'you always get caught'; as your two ex managers can probably verify Peter. Presumably, and I don't know if this is the case, but MP's must have to keep all receipts and have a full audit of their expenses on a yearly basis.. I don't mean an overview, I mean a detailed analysis. I know for example, I could add 5 trips to London on my expenses form and no one would ever question it. I would imagine that FTSE100 companies, being so big, cannot spare the time and resource to do so effectively. Surely, an MP's office wouldn't have the same difficulty?
peter h
Monday Nov 27, 22:22
there has to be an element of trust, and I doubt whether any MP's expenses get forensically analysed.
And then you get the judgement thing. Is it ethical or not for Gerald Kaufman to have a chauffeur? one of the correspondents here thinks not. But GK no doubt thinks it perfectly ethical.
what annoys me though in this argument is the assumption that just because JL spends a lot he must be fiddling things.
you could equally argue that his costs are higher because he works harder. That would be 100% logical, but nobody wants to believe that.
John Holliker
Tuesday Nov 28, 14:21
Peter - a poor sidestep of my earlier posts.
peter h
Tuesday Nov 28, 18:13
coming from the george best of sidesteps, that's a compliment.
I didnt think I was sidestepping anything john, though. Not intentionally.
John Holliker
Wednesday Nov 29, 10:40
My dad's bigger than your dad (etc etc)
peter h
Wednesday Nov 29, 21:47
my dad was the world's tallest dwarf
Alan
Friday Dec 01, 17:47
There you go Peter, just incase you ever want a texas male escort!!
peter h
Friday Dec 01, 17:53
tony blair got one of them and look what happened.
Alan
Saturday Dec 02, 09:59
LOL
Withington Observer
Monday Dec 04, 21:47
There is a hint in one or two of these posts that the estimable John Leech MP is somehow directing some of his record expenses to his party political activity. Others say that people in all walks of life, including MPs, fiddle expenses. But surely we need some evidence for such allegations and insinuations don't we?
All I can say is that I remember seeing in the Evening News that John Leech MP had produced what he called a "Parliamentary Annual Report" after about eight or nine months, including the long recess and that this was distributed just before and possible in the early days of the local election period this year.
This was a glossy number and in Chorlton it included TWO count em pictures of the local government candidate for Chorlton for the Lib Dems. So the tax payer was paying for something which clearly had a party political component and perverse timing for an annual report but useful timing for an electoral effort. But that is not all. Yes, it was paid for by the tax payer. Yes, it was excessively like Lib Dem campaign material. Yes, it included two pictures of the local candidate just before an election. Yes, it was rather nauseating.
But what's this? It was also distributed in parts of the Chorlton ward for muggins the local candidate but which fall outside John Leech's current constituency. Which is bang to rights. There was even talk of the guy being reported to the Speaker for deliberately going over the constituency boundary - and apparently he has done the same sort of poaching casework in two or three other neighbouring constituencies.
This was not the first time we've seen mistaken distribution from Leech's crack team. Surely the Christies leaflets shoved into the poor faces of terminally ill cancer patients in waiting areas was another example? Even if the leaflets had not been full of fibs this was bang out of order. And I'm sure that in his heart of hearts Mr Leech knows that.
Sick of Leech's Lies
Tuesday Dec 05, 12:41
well said Withington Observer. Now let's all sick back and wait for the Lib Dem Leech spin machine to trot out the usual answer which to save us all time will go as follows:
John Leech is brilliant
Anyway even if he isn't Labour/tory/green/anyone else is worse.
Iraq/Blair blah blah blah
They are pathetic
Fair Play
Tuesday Dec 05, 17:02
Why do you all attack Mr Leech. He defended Christie hospital against it being closed by the Labour Government who just want to give money to their friends. It doesn't really matter if Mr Leech has lots of expenses . He deserves it. He worked hard to be an MP and he has a lot of expenses. Leave him alone. At least he send leaflets to everyone telling what his party is doing. Whta's wrong with that. That is what expenses are for to let people know.
Alan
Tuesday Dec 05, 18:15
No that's not what expenses are for. They are for the up keep of his office, payment of staff, travel expenses, computer equipment and stationary. It is illegal to use taxpayers money to manufacture political literature. I'm not saying that he has,I don't know. Would you be happy if it was a Tory politician in office and he was using your tax money to fund his political campaign? I think not!!
peter h
Tuesday Dec 05, 18:49
alan is quite right, apart from not being able to spell stationery, and until people present hard factual evidence that john leech has misused his expenses in any way, then he has no case to answer. I suspect he is no better and no worse than the rest of them, and will have stayed within thr letter of the law and sometimes bent its spirit. They all do it. Witness Alistair Campbell's misuse for political ends, for instance
Alan
Wednesday Dec 06, 07:17
Very well written Peter... apart from not being able to spell 'the'!!
Chris Paul
Wednesday Dec 06, 11:05
Peter H is dead wrong not right Alan.
Withington Observer has recounted something from the Manchester Evening News which stated that Mr Leech had distributed a "parliamentary report" just before an election, featuring a local candidate, and in areas outside his constituency (which he also incidentally pestered with sanctimonious Crimbo cards, or at least the cards were low-rent LD specials but there was an enclosed handwritten or spider-written sermon from Rev Honest John - "think of others, not yourself" kind of thing, pretty rich from Mr Ego).
But that's old news. I don't know if Withington Observer even lives in the constituency or in the distribution area for "Manchester News" at any rate.
This Lib Dem Fict-Sheet's latest edition would have been worth a mention if this person did. This contained an advert, presumably paid for either by the tax payer or the council tax payer advertising the MP's services!!!
Are the spilts in Manchester Lib Dems so bad that they make Leech pay to have his contact details in their own propaganda sheet!? Probably; there certainly seems to be a leadership challenge in the offing with Leech, Shannon and Ramsbottom among those manouvreing and even Commons and Whitmore perking up a bit.
Remember Chris Huhne MP/MEP/Cllr too for all I know getting into trouble for doing exactly this with his Euro-gravy? Propping up local party political campaigning with public money??
Well, it looks like having lost his main benefactor, over his dishonesty and lack of interest in anything put his own beatification, Leech is stooping to Huhne's smug gutter. There you are "Peter H" - two examples of apolitical expenses money appearing to go into politics.
The gaudy Lib Dem office putting off anyone but a Lib Dem anorak from entering is another example of his tax-paid partisanship.
And hiring unsuitable wretched people who appear to do more for party than for local people would be a fourth if that were the case.
This time Peter H or John L or whoever can we please have some facts and arguments rather than just assertions of saintlihood. The man is an egotistical stop at nothing menace and the sooner there is a general election to get rid the better.
Jacky Burnage
Thursday Dec 07, 09:27
Gosh! I haven't posted here before but this Leech does seem to get you all going. I don't know much about politics but a friend of mine who is interested in that kind of thing said he was in a council meeting on Wednesday when something big was going on in the house of Commons. Why is he not there when he is an MP?
Chris Paul
Thursday Dec 07, 15:47
I'm told that John Leech was leaning on the crutch of misery about some decaying buildings on Burton Road. The owners, and presumably the Lib Dem councillors, have let them get into an unsafe state I believe and now Leech wants them saved using who knows what powers and resources.
One would hope that the Lib Dems have someone else that could have made the self same points. Possibly without (a) chewing gum and (b) scowling. So it's hard to say why JL is doing this. He missed Gordon's turn at Westminster and who knows what votes, debates, business and MP work.
All told though a very quiet kind of meeting. Donaldson didn't apologise for his nazi salute, but then again Labour didn't challenge him; there was some flip flopping going on over Shannon and Wheale and their disagreements about some former allotment land; "leader" Simon Ashley said next to nothing; and one poor sap on the Lib Dem benches slammed the council over lack of pedestrian crossing facilities at the junction of Portland Street and Whitworth Street.
Labour had to admit there were none. But then again there is no junction as the two streets are parallel and as a brighter soul and most 7 year olds would realise parallel lines don't have junctions.
Leech can only be hanging on as Councillor for three reasons (1) for the money (2) in case he gets thrown out next election as the calculators predict and (3) because Norm and Tone are so weak.
I suppose there's a chance he will go for the leadership of the Lib Dem group in the Town Hall when that comes up. Pretty soon I reckon.
peter h
Thursday Dec 07, 17:48
If Chris Paul could learn how to express himself coherently, he'd be worth arguing with. As it is, he appears to need sectioning.
Do you actually expect people to read that lot,Chris? I've heard of stream of consciousness but that's niagara bloody falls
Alan
Thursday Dec 07, 19:05
I can't see it being for the money; I'm ver money orientated and £60k p.a. as a basic salary would suit me just nicely! I don't know why he holds on to his council seat, he should stand down and I'd say that be it Lib Dem, Labour or Tory!
Labour Watch
Friday Dec 08, 08:43
Good to see Chris Paul scoring an own goal as usual - the decaying building he refers is owned by the Labour run Council and it's in Old Moat ward, represented by 3 Labour Councillors. Never mind Chris, better luck next time!
Ian McGarry
Friday Dec 08, 13:11
With no apologies for the length of this post:
Ray King in Monday Night's MEN:
"Last week, the long-awaited £7m critical care unit opened at South Manchester's iconic Christie Hospital. Maybe now people may be able to sleep soundly in their beds again knowing that this world-renowned institution is not going to be closed won, or its services broken up. Such fears - all completely unfounded - were bandied about during the General Election campaign. The truth is that there was never any threat to Christie and and the opening of the new unit is proof of that.
Does anyone imagine that one fo the most high-tech facilities in the nworld could have been planned, approved, funded, procured, built, equipped, staffed and opened in a mere 18 months?
"These projects take years to deliver.
" There was indeed a review of cancer services in the north west ordered in 2002, but quite unlike the review of heart transplan provision that, for a time, posed a threat to Wythenshawe Hospital's facility, Christie was never at risk.
"The review was actually seeking ways of expanding Christie's services into local hospitals. Nonetheless, that background proved to be fertile soil in which to plant doubts about the critical care unit. To this, add concerns express by doctors and it all becomes a heady brew. Scarpping of the critical care unit would be the first step towards the closure of Christie! Well it wasn't and it didn't and it won't. The irony is that the late, brace Patsy Calton, the Lib Dem MP for Cheadle, who died within days of retaining her seat was receiving treatment in Christie while (Lib Dem) demonstrators were at the gates.
"The furore surrounding the Christie was a classic example of how the NHS can be used as a political football and it's dangerous stuff."
Neil Goodwin (apolotical) Head of Greater Manchester NHS:
"...there have been despicable rumours that the Christie would close. This is cimplete and utter nonsense and wholly irresponsible. The hospital has been and always will be central to our plans for the future of cancer services."
Someone (Ray King, Neil Goodwin or John Leech) is lying.
So c'mon John...stop taking the p*ss. Time to own up instead of taking us all for eejits.
Ian McGarry
Friday Dec 08, 13:11
With no apologies for the length of this post:
Ray King in Monday Night's MEN:
"Last week, the long-awaited £7m critical care unit opened at South Manchester's iconic Christie Hospital. Maybe now people may be able to sleep soundly in their beds again knowing that this world-renowned institution is not going to be closed won, or its services broken up. Such fears - all completely unfounded - were bandied about during the General Election campaign. The truth is that there was never any threat to Christie and and the opening of the new unit is proof of that.
Does anyone imagine that one fo the most high-tech facilities in the nworld could have been planned, approved, funded, procured, built, equipped, staffed and opened in a mere 18 months?
"These projects take years to deliver.
" There was indeed a review of cancer services in the north west ordered in 2002, but quite unlike the review of heart transplan provision that, for a time, posed a threat to Wythenshawe Hospital's facility, Christie was never at risk.
"The review was actually seeking ways of expanding Christie's services into local hospitals. Nonetheless, that background proved to be fertile soil in which to plant doubts about the critical care unit. To this, add concerns express by doctors and it all becomes a heady brew. Scarpping of the critical care unit would be the first step towards the closure of Christie! Well it wasn't and it didn't and it won't. The irony is that the late, brace Patsy Calton, the Lib Dem MP for Cheadle, who died within days of retaining her seat was receiving treatment in Christie while (Lib Dem) demonstrators were at the gates.
"The furore surrounding the Christie was a classic example of how the NHS can be used as a political football and it's dangerous stuff."
Neil Goodwin (apolotical) Head of Greater Manchester NHS:
"...there have been despicable rumours that the Christie would close. This is cimplete and utter nonsense and wholly irresponsible. The hospital has been and always will be central to our plans for the future of cancer services."
Someone (Ray King, Neil Goodwin or John Leech) is lying.
So c'mon John...stop taking the p*ss. Time to own up instead of taking us all for eejits.
Alan
Friday Dec 08, 13:19
Go Ian!!
Alan
Friday Dec 08, 13:20
p.s. long time no see, hope all is well!
Ian McGarry
Friday Dec 08, 14:02
I'm sure Peter will be scoring me for bad grammer and punktuation before he avoids the issue completely and tells me there is a war going on in Iraq.
peter h
Friday Dec 08, 22:46
well , iraq does matter rather more than who said what about christies 2 years ago or whenever.
I believe John Leech simply because I lost all trust in Labour as regards NHS over Withington Hospital's closure. And you can't deny the doctors at Christies believed it too.
I won't criticize your grammar, Ian. I'll just say youre trying to flog a dead horse. Move on. Fight today's battles. Your party's up sh*t creek and losing the battle against DAvid ?Cameron. HOs sad is that?
Ian McGarry
Saturday Dec 09, 00:59
Predictably avoiding the point of my previous post...
peter h
Saturday Dec 09, 17:27
NOt avoiding anything mate. I told you I believe John Leech because I dont trust Labour with NHS. That answers you.
And I akt issue with you over trying to dismiss Iraq as some side issue compared to Chrisities.
Iraq is THE defining issue for Labour in the last 5 years whether you like it or not, and has cost you the credibility of a big slice of the electorare and, with it, the next election.
Suzanne
Monday Dec 11, 14:51
http://ontheknocker.blogspot.com/
Peter H - even in the face of facts which prove that John Leech MP was wrong about Christies you still don't believe he did anything wrong- shame on you - but more importantly shame on John Leech for not admitting he was wrong and saying he is sorry to his electorate and the patients of Christies Hospital.
As for the Iraq war - give it a rest mate!
Oh and to Labour Watch - whoever you are.....I blog on this site in a personal capacity. However, I make no effort to hide my identity and my connections to the Labour Party, unlike you.
Dave
Monday Dec 11, 15:29
Suzanne
How can you tell the likes of Peter and myself to give it a rest over the Iraq war, when so many on here including yourself go on and on about JL and Christies? Kettle call the pot black springs to mind! I know which is more important to me... John Leech, lies/misleads etc about one hospital. Tong Blair lies/misleads about WMD and billions of tax payers money wasted, thousands of sevicemen and women killed, thousands of of civillians killed, a country on the brink of civil war....
I think this site served a purpose, but I think it needs to be wound up. Sorry Thomas, don't get me wrong, I enjoy the banter, but it is now looking pretty lame, the same handful (myself included) debating the same handful of issues over and over again. The people will be able to vote soon, and go with the Lying Labour Party, or the Lying Leech
Alan
Monday Dec 11, 18:00
To an extent I agree with Dave, although I am certainly not disputing what Suzanne has said. Essentially there are people who contribute to this site who will put forward the case that JL lied about Christies and there will be some who disagree - the same goes for TB and the Iraq war. No one will change your mind Dave, or Peter's or mine, Suzanne's etc. The fact is that I think, those who do believe that John Leech misled the voters over Christie, should look forward to the next election, put that to one side for now and concentrate on how we are going to win the next election and bring another Labour MP to Manchester Withington (providing it's not Arlene McCarthy!!)
peter h
Monday Dec 11, 21:56
bizarre. people here thinking that john leech's comments about christie matter more than Iraq. It's twisted. Iraq is costing this country billions; it's cost over 100,000 lives; it lead directly to 7/7 and a huge increase in the terrorist threat; it's split labour in two; it cost many MPs, including Keith Bradley, their seats; it has destabilized the western world. Yet it is irrelevant compared to a disputed claim about Christies.
Steven
Monday Dec 11, 23:07
Well actually Peter, the simple fact is that this forum is not a discussion about the merits of Tony Blair, but those of John Leech (unfortunately there seem to be few). As a constituency MP he is ineffective locally and nationally - he can't represent his constituents properly because he spends half his time defending colleagues that have made Nazi salutes in the council chambers (or his own poor record), and the other half bumbling along trying, unsuccessfully, to get "in" with someone in the Lib Dems nationally. Apparently, Leech refuses to attend events which Keith Bradley goes to (he has been seen looking down the sign in book at various charity events, spotting Keith Bradley's signature, and leaving).
You have every right to feel angry with Tony Blair if you want, but you forget that local, hard working constituency MPs are not the executive. You've got what you want - TB is going, so why not start supporting decent local Labour candidates who actually deliver for constituents and don't have two jobs to fund political campaigning.
At the end of the day, Leech told a huge LIE about Christie Hospital "closing". He knew that there was no danger of it closing and took a statement signed by doctors that merely said that the closure of the critical care unit could effect the outcomes of patients' treatment and misled the public into thinking that the whole of Christie Hospital was under the threat of closure.
John Leech doesn't deserve your vote any more than Tony Blair does. If you want to register your dissatisfaction, spoil your ballot, vote Green, or stand yourself. Just supporting Leech because he isn't Labour is downright STUPID.
Suzanne
Thursday Dec 14, 16:32
Dave - this site does pretty much what it says on the tin - John Leech Watch - if you don't like it don't visit it - if you have an issue with content make entries yourself which we can then in turn debate.
A huge thanks to Thomas for all his hard work in keeping this site going.
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